<< >> NASA ASRS Report 399110, April 1998

B727 aircraft arriving for approach with ATIS reporting wet runways and reporter captain's air carrier precludes lahso with wet runway. Reporter questions why lahso operations are in use with wet runways.

Attributes
ACN	399110
Time
Date	199804
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : ord
State Reference	IL
Altitude	msl bound lower : 1500 msl bound upper : 1500
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : ord
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 18000 flight time type : 2000
ASRS Report	399110
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : unable
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

I was the captain of flight on apr/xa/98 from ewr to ord. The ATIS was advertising 'simultaneous wet intersecting runway operations' in effect with lndgs on runway 14R, runway 22R, and runway 22L. Lndgs on runway 14R to hold short of runway 27L with 9800 ft available. WX was 8000 ft broken, 9500 ft overcast with the wind 070 degrees at 4 KTS, temperature 12 degrees dewpoint 4 degrees, and surfaces were wet. Our air carrier is precluded from lahso's when the runway is wet. I would like to get an answer on what the definition of wet is for purposes of lahso's. I do not know how I would respond to the FAA attorney at the hearing when he asks me why I landed on a wet runway in a lahso knowing full well that our fom says we can't do that. I suspect that the FAA's definition of wet would be anything that is not dry. Some of the poorest braking can be obtained on a surface that is only slightly wet. Once more, are we to continue these types of operations until we sustain an accident?

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B727 ACFT ARRIVING FOR APCH WITH ATIS RPTING WET RWYS AND RPTR CAPT'S ACR PRECLUDES LAHSO WITH WET RWY. RPTR QUESTIONS WHY LAHSO OPS ARE IN USE WITH WET RWYS.

Narrative: I WAS THE CAPT OF FLT ON APR/XA/98 FROM EWR TO ORD. THE ATIS WAS ADVERTISING 'SIMULTANEOUS WET INTERSECTING RWY OPS' IN EFFECT WITH LNDGS ON RWY 14R, RWY 22R, AND RWY 22L. LNDGS ON RWY 14R TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 27L WITH 9800 FT AVAILABLE. WX WAS 8000 FT BROKEN, 9500 FT OVCST WITH THE WIND 070 DEGS AT 4 KTS, TEMP 12 DEGS DEWPOINT 4 DEGS, AND SURFACES WERE WET. OUR ACR IS PRECLUDED FROM LAHSO'S WHEN THE RWY IS WET. I WOULD LIKE TO GET AN ANSWER ON WHAT THE DEFINITION OF WET IS FOR PURPOSES OF LAHSO'S. I DO NOT KNOW HOW I WOULD RESPOND TO THE FAA ATTORNEY AT THE HEARING WHEN HE ASKS ME WHY I LANDED ON A WET RWY IN A LAHSO KNOWING FULL WELL THAT OUR FOM SAYS WE CAN'T DO THAT. I SUSPECT THAT THE FAA'S DEFINITION OF WET WOULD BE ANYTHING THAT IS NOT DRY. SOME OF THE POOREST BRAKING CAN BE OBTAINED ON A SURFACE THAT IS ONLY SLIGHTLY WET. ONCE MORE, ARE WE TO CONTINUE THESE TYPES OF OPS UNTIL WE SUSTAIN AN ACCIDENT?

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.