37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 465236 |
Time | |
Date | 200003 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dfw.airport |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3500 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : d10.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | arrival : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : d10.tracon |
Make Model Name | Widebody Transport |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 465236 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
ASRS Report | 465287 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued alert flight crew : returned to assigned altitude flight crew : took evasive action |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
Upon leveling at 4000 ft and heading east while being vectored for runway 17C, we received an altitude alert on the TCASII. Shortly thereafter, approach pointed out the traffic to us. We then got a TCASII command to 'descend crossing traffic.' we began a descent and notified approach. They told us not to descend because there was traffic below us and to climb to 5000 ft. We notified them that we could not climb due to a TCASII RA. They then told us to climb back to 5000 ft as soon as we could. We did not have any traffic on TCASII below us, but did have the traffic on TCASII that we were reacting to. We felt we were in a no win position and trapped between 2 other aircraft. One we knew about on TCASII, and the other we had no idea where it was. We descended to 3500 ft and then climbed back up to altitude. As far as we know, there was no loss of separation. It was a very uncomfortable position. The controller, as soon as he saw what was happening, tried to correct the situation, but we were already well into our descent and were afraid to go against the TCASII at that point. I would stress the importance of following TCASII. I believe it kept us out of a serious situation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: RPTR FOLLOWED THEIR TCASII RA TO AVOID OTHER TFC.
Narrative: UPON LEVELING AT 4000 FT AND HDG E WHILE BEING VECTORED FOR RWY 17C, WE RECEIVED AN ALT ALERT ON THE TCASII. SHORTLY THEREAFTER, APCH POINTED OUT THE TFC TO US. WE THEN GOT A TCASII COMMAND TO 'DSND XING TFC.' WE BEGAN A DSCNT AND NOTIFIED APCH. THEY TOLD US NOT TO DSND BECAUSE THERE WAS TFC BELOW US AND TO CLB TO 5000 FT. WE NOTIFIED THEM THAT WE COULD NOT CLB DUE TO A TCASII RA. THEY THEN TOLD US TO CLB BACK TO 5000 FT AS SOON AS WE COULD. WE DID NOT HAVE ANY TFC ON TCASII BELOW US, BUT DID HAVE THE TFC ON TCASII THAT WE WERE REACTING TO. WE FELT WE WERE IN A NO WIN POS AND TRAPPED BTWN 2 OTHER ACFT. ONE WE KNEW ABOUT ON TCASII, AND THE OTHER WE HAD NO IDEA WHERE IT WAS. WE DSNDED TO 3500 FT AND THEN CLBED BACK UP TO ALT. AS FAR AS WE KNOW, THERE WAS NO LOSS OF SEPARATION. IT WAS A VERY UNCOMFORTABLE POS. THE CTLR, AS SOON AS HE SAW WHAT WAS HAPPENING, TRIED TO CORRECT THE SIT, BUT WE WERE ALREADY WELL INTO OUR DSCNT AND WERE AFRAID TO GO AGAINST THE TCASII AT THAT POINT. I WOULD STRESS THE IMPORTANCE OF FOLLOWING TCASII. I BELIEVE IT KEPT US OUT OF A SERIOUS SIT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.