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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 484889 |
Time | |
Date | 200009 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : lax.ils |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 4500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc tracon : sct.tracon tracon : d21.tracon |
Make Model Name | B737-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other vortac |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival star : civit |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 23000 flight time type : 17500 |
ASRS Report | 484889 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued alert controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | FAA Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : sct.tracon |
Narrative:
Inbound to civet on J107 for lax. Prior to civet, ZLA cleared us direct snrkl for the mitts arrival instead of the civet arrival. We requested a vector due to our aircraft status, but he said again 'cleared direct snrkl.' we finally convinced him we couldn't navigation direct snrkl, so he cleared us to intercept the arrival at civet. A heavy jet was ahead of us and he told us 'cleared the mitts arrival to runway 25L, the heavy is for runway 24R.' that confused us, so we asked for clarification and he said the heavy was runway 25L and we were cleared to descend via the mitts arrival to runway 24R. Somewhere in all this he slowed us to 210 KTS. We continued down the runway 24R ILS and around 4500 ft he called and wanted to know why we hadn't switched to socal on 125.80 (I think). We told him we were never given a frequency change and he replied 'then you should not have descended!' we switched to socal and continued approach. ATC seemed to be confused a good part of the time which kept us confused. I don't think he (ZLA) ever gave us a frequency change, but in retrospect, I'm not sure we ever actually received an approach controller to runway 24R, just a descent clearance for the mitts arrival. This area is always a very busy time because they always seem to change your arrival and runway at the last min. Throw in a confused controller, and it makes it easy for an overworked crew to keep track of all they need to be keeping track of.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 CREW HAD LAST MIN CLRNC CHANGE INTO LAX. CTLR WAS ALSO CONFUSED.
Narrative: INBOUND TO CIVET ON J107 FOR LAX. PRIOR TO CIVET, ZLA CLRED US DIRECT SNRKL FOR THE MITTS ARR INSTEAD OF THE CIVET ARR. WE REQUESTED A VECTOR DUE TO OUR ACFT STATUS, BUT HE SAID AGAIN 'CLRED DIRECT SNRKL.' WE FINALLY CONVINCED HIM WE COULDN'T NAV DIRECT SNRKL, SO HE CLRED US TO INTERCEPT THE ARR AT CIVET. A HVY JET WAS AHEAD OF US AND HE TOLD US 'CLRED THE MITTS ARR TO RWY 25L, THE HVY IS FOR RWY 24R.' THAT CONFUSED US, SO WE ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION AND HE SAID THE HVY WAS RWY 25L AND WE WERE CLRED TO DSND VIA THE MITTS ARR TO RWY 24R. SOMEWHERE IN ALL THIS HE SLOWED US TO 210 KTS. WE CONTINUED DOWN THE RWY 24R ILS AND AROUND 4500 FT HE CALLED AND WANTED TO KNOW WHY WE HADN'T SWITCHED TO SOCAL ON 125.80 (I THINK). WE TOLD HIM WE WERE NEVER GIVEN A FREQ CHANGE AND HE REPLIED 'THEN YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE DSNDED!' WE SWITCHED TO SOCAL AND CONTINUED APCH. ATC SEEMED TO BE CONFUSED A GOOD PART OF THE TIME WHICH KEPT US CONFUSED. I DON'T THINK HE (ZLA) EVER GAVE US A FREQ CHANGE, BUT IN RETROSPECT, I'M NOT SURE WE EVER ACTUALLY RECEIVED AN APCH CTLR TO RWY 24R, JUST A DSCNT CLRNC FOR THE MITTS ARR. THIS AREA IS ALWAYS A VERY BUSY TIME BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS SEEM TO CHANGE YOUR ARR AND RWY AT THE LAST MIN. THROW IN A CONFUSED CTLR, AND IT MAKES IT EASY FOR AN OVERWORKED CREW TO KEEP TRACK OF ALL THEY NEED TO BE KEEPING TRACK OF.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.