Narrative:

Dfw deicing procedure 'etal' causing delay. Flight began with a maintenance delay due to items found on the origination preflight inspection. Aircraft had been in dfw since about XX00 and our flight was to depart at XA15. This aircraft had a previously written up item of an inoperative APU air load control valve, so the APU could not be used for heat. Certainly someone should have been aware of this and had the aircraft set up with external air prior to our arrival, in order to provide a comfortable environment for our customers. The outside air temperature was 35 degrees F and the cabin was like an icebox, due to the aircraft being cold-soaked. The first officer called ramp control for heat, but it didn't get hooked up until approximately 15 mins prior to scheduled departure. The cabin finally got up to 62 degrees F just prior to power-back, with everyone already in their seats and shivering for some time. The 2 maintenance discrepancies found during the preflight inspection were: static wick missing (deferrable item), and a stall indication problem (no-go item). Shouldn't these 2 items have been found during the required overnight maintenance inspection. We ended up with only a 16 min delay due to the maintenance items, because of a very conscientious mechanic who really hustled to find the cause of the stall indication problem and was able to repair it in good time, since he did not have to replace the stall vane, as was originally thought to be necessary. If that had been the case, we would have been delayed at least 30 additional mins after the part would have arrived from the hangar or stores. Now to the deicing situation. The WX conditions at the time our arrival at the aircraft (gate) were clear skies, very dry (not visible moisture to be seen anywhere) and very cold. The first officer discovered that the aircraft had an accumulation of frost covering the bottom and the top of the wings, but nothing on the fuselage. I am assuming that the aircraft came in that way at XX00 or there could have been some additional moisture accumulated after arrival if moisture was in the air or from the cold fuel. Fueling for our flight had not begun at the time the walkaround was accomplished. This aircraft would only need a type I wash-down of the wings and possibly the tail. In order to save time, why couldn't this have been done earlier in the morning prior to our arrival from hou, as they do at other stations when there is obviously no need for precipitation concerns after takeoff and ho holdover times needed? The first officer advised ramp control that we needed to be deiced and they stated that we should proceed to the deicing spot after the pwrback and flash the lights twice. I had to flash the lights about 8 times because everyone had their heads down, preoccupied with something else and didn't notice us until we were there. The 'certified deicer' plugged into the aircraft and told me to prepare the aircraft for deicing. The APU was already off since it was inoperative, so I just turned off the packs. I told him we were prepared and he stated that we 'must shut down the engines.' I asked why we had to do that, as it is not required any other place that I have been deiced off the gate (except probably at dfw, and since it has been so long since I have been stuck over there, I don't remember). He said 'that is the policy at dfw for safety.' seems rather odd that it doesn't seem to be a safety issue at numerous other places where I am required to be off gate for deicing. Anyway, I advised him of the APU problem and stated that I would only shut down one at a time and they could deice one side at a time. I also explained to him that I was not trying to give him a hard time, that I was just concerned about our already delayed passenger (on an obviously beautiful saturday, with no other traffic visible to them), the additional wear and tear on the engines and the blow-back from a xbleed start. While they were deicing, I called ramp control and asked if a deicing supervisor was available. He stated that no one there knew anything about deicing and to call the 'mod.' I called the 'mod' and he stated that he knew nothing about deicing. So much for getting any answers.the whole process took 24 mins and we were the only aircraft in line to get deiced. That's a total of 40 mins totally unnecessary delay time (16 maintenance, 24 deicing) -- not counting taxi time to the runway. Where is the supervision at dfw? Why does no one know or seem to care how the rest of the world operates? Does dfw always have to reinvent the wheel? Why is dfw the most hazardous place in the system to power back and taxi? Why do ground vehicles play chicken with aircraft coming out of a pwrback during taxi into the ramp and gate areas? It's very frustrating when you are trying to do a good job taking care of the customers and you have so many in-company factions working against that goal. Needless to say, a lot of 'humble pie' had to be eaten during the PA's on flight this morning in an attempt to appease those folks, when all of this could have been avoided.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: MD80 CAPT WAS NOT HAPPY WITH COMPANY HANDLING OF HIS TRIP IN DFW.

Narrative: DFW DEICING PROC 'ETAL' CAUSING DELAY. FLT BEGAN WITH A MAINT DELAY DUE TO ITEMS FOUND ON THE ORIGINATION PREFLT INSPECTION. ACFT HAD BEEN IN DFW SINCE ABOUT XX00 AND OUR FLT WAS TO DEPART AT XA15. THIS ACFT HAD A PREVIOUSLY WRITTEN UP ITEM OF AN INOP APU AIR LOAD CTL VALVE, SO THE APU COULD NOT BE USED FOR HEAT. CERTAINLY SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THIS AND HAD THE ACFT SET UP WITH EXTERNAL AIR PRIOR TO OUR ARR, IN ORDER TO PROVIDE A COMFORTABLE ENVIRONMENT FOR OUR CUSTOMERS. THE OUTSIDE AIR TEMP WAS 35 DEGS F AND THE CABIN WAS LIKE AN ICEBOX, DUE TO THE ACFT BEING COLD-SOAKED. THE FO CALLED RAMP CTL FOR HEAT, BUT IT DIDN'T GET HOOKED UP UNTIL APPROX 15 MINS PRIOR TO SCHEDULED DEP. THE CABIN FINALLY GOT UP TO 62 DEGS F JUST PRIOR TO PWR-BACK, WITH EVERYONE ALREADY IN THEIR SEATS AND SHIVERING FOR SOME TIME. THE 2 MAINT DISCREPANCIES FOUND DURING THE PREFLT INSPECTION WERE: STATIC WICK MISSING (DEFERRABLE ITEM), AND A STALL INDICATION PROB (NO-GO ITEM). SHOULDN'T THESE 2 ITEMS HAVE BEEN FOUND DURING THE REQUIRED OVERNIGHT MAINT INSPECTION. WE ENDED UP WITH ONLY A 16 MIN DELAY DUE TO THE MAINT ITEMS, BECAUSE OF A VERY CONSCIENTIOUS MECH WHO REALLY HUSTLED TO FIND THE CAUSE OF THE STALL INDICATION PROB AND WAS ABLE TO REPAIR IT IN GOOD TIME, SINCE HE DID NOT HAVE TO REPLACE THE STALL VANE, AS WAS ORIGINALLY THOUGHT TO BE NECESSARY. IF THAT HAD BEEN THE CASE, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN DELAYED AT LEAST 30 ADDITIONAL MINS AFTER THE PART WOULD HAVE ARRIVED FROM THE HANGAR OR STORES. NOW TO THE DEICING SIT. THE WX CONDITIONS AT THE TIME OUR ARR AT THE ACFT (GATE) WERE CLR SKIES, VERY DRY (NOT VISIBLE MOISTURE TO BE SEEN ANYWHERE) AND VERY COLD. THE FO DISCOVERED THAT THE ACFT HAD AN ACCUMULATION OF FROST COVERING THE BOTTOM AND THE TOP OF THE WINGS, BUT NOTHING ON THE FUSELAGE. I AM ASSUMING THAT THE ACFT CAME IN THAT WAY AT XX00 OR THERE COULD HAVE BEEN SOME ADDITIONAL MOISTURE ACCUMULATED AFTER ARR IF MOISTURE WAS IN THE AIR OR FROM THE COLD FUEL. FUELING FOR OUR FLT HAD NOT BEGUN AT THE TIME THE WALKAROUND WAS ACCOMPLISHED. THIS ACFT WOULD ONLY NEED A TYPE I WASH-DOWN OF THE WINGS AND POSSIBLY THE TAIL. IN ORDER TO SAVE TIME, WHY COULDN'T THIS HAVE BEEN DONE EARLIER IN THE MORNING PRIOR TO OUR ARR FROM HOU, AS THEY DO AT OTHER STATIONS WHEN THERE IS OBVIOUSLY NO NEED FOR PRECIPITATION CONCERNS AFTER TKOF AND HO HOLDOVER TIMES NEEDED? THE FO ADVISED RAMP CTL THAT WE NEEDED TO BE DEICED AND THEY STATED THAT WE SHOULD PROCEED TO THE DEICING SPOT AFTER THE PWRBACK AND FLASH THE LIGHTS TWICE. I HAD TO FLASH THE LIGHTS ABOUT 8 TIMES BECAUSE EVERYONE HAD THEIR HEADS DOWN, PREOCCUPIED WITH SOMETHING ELSE AND DIDN'T NOTICE US UNTIL WE WERE THERE. THE 'CERTIFIED DEICER' PLUGGED INTO THE ACFT AND TOLD ME TO PREPARE THE ACFT FOR DEICING. THE APU WAS ALREADY OFF SINCE IT WAS INOP, SO I JUST TURNED OFF THE PACKS. I TOLD HIM WE WERE PREPARED AND HE STATED THAT WE 'MUST SHUT DOWN THE ENGS.' I ASKED WHY WE HAD TO DO THAT, AS IT IS NOT REQUIRED ANY OTHER PLACE THAT I HAVE BEEN DEICED OFF THE GATE (EXCEPT PROBABLY AT DFW, AND SINCE IT HAS BEEN SO LONG SINCE I HAVE BEEN STUCK OVER THERE, I DON'T REMEMBER). HE SAID 'THAT IS THE POLICY AT DFW FOR SAFETY.' SEEMS RATHER ODD THAT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A SAFETY ISSUE AT NUMEROUS OTHER PLACES WHERE I AM REQUIRED TO BE OFF GATE FOR DEICING. ANYWAY, I ADVISED HIM OF THE APU PROB AND STATED THAT I WOULD ONLY SHUT DOWN ONE AT A TIME AND THEY COULD DEICE ONE SIDE AT A TIME. I ALSO EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT I WAS NOT TRYING TO GIVE HIM A HARD TIME, THAT I WAS JUST CONCERNED ABOUT OUR ALREADY DELAYED PAX (ON AN OBVIOUSLY BEAUTIFUL SATURDAY, WITH NO OTHER TFC VISIBLE TO THEM), THE ADDITIONAL WEAR AND TEAR ON THE ENGS AND THE BLOW-BACK FROM A XBLEED START. WHILE THEY WERE DEICING, I CALLED RAMP CTL AND ASKED IF A DEICING SUPVR WAS AVAILABLE. HE STATED THAT NO ONE THERE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT DEICING AND TO CALL THE 'MOD.' I CALLED THE 'MOD' AND HE STATED THAT HE KNEW NOTHING ABOUT DEICING. SO MUCH FOR GETTING ANY ANSWERS.THE WHOLE PROCESS TOOK 24 MINS AND WE WERE THE ONLY ACFT IN LINE TO GET DEICED. THAT'S A TOTAL OF 40 MINS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY DELAY TIME (16 MAINT, 24 DEICING) -- NOT COUNTING TAXI TIME TO THE RWY. WHERE IS THE SUPERVISION AT DFW? WHY DOES NO ONE KNOW OR SEEM TO CARE HOW THE REST OF THE WORLD OPERATES? DOES DFW ALWAYS HAVE TO REINVENT THE WHEEL? WHY IS DFW THE MOST HAZARDOUS PLACE IN THE SYS TO PWR BACK AND TAXI? WHY DO GND VEHICLES PLAY CHICKEN WITH ACFT COMING OUT OF A PWRBACK DURING TAXI INTO THE RAMP AND GATE AREAS? IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO DO A GOOD JOB TAKING CARE OF THE CUSTOMERS AND YOU HAVE SO MANY IN-COMPANY FACTIONS WORKING AGAINST THAT GOAL. NEEDLESS TO SAY, A LOT OF 'HUMBLE PIE' HAD TO BE EATEN DURING THE PA'S ON FLT THIS MORNING IN AN ATTEMPT TO APPEASE THOSE FOLKS, WHEN ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.