37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 511190 |
Time | |
Date | 200105 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : frg.airport |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 10400 msl bound upper : 11000 |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Challenger CL604 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival star : camrn 3 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 70 flight time total : 8500 flight time type : 300 |
ASRS Report | 511190 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance non adherence : far |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Cavu day. Finishing camrn 3 STAR to 11000 ft into frg airport. Flown this arrival and airport hundreds of times in the past yrs. Just prior to reaching 11000 ft, controller gave unexpected crossing clearance to 50 NM from dpk at 11000 ft and 25 NM at 4000 ft. Aircraft descending on VNAV through approximately 11000 ft at 1500 FPM to meet camrn at 11000 ft STAR at the time of clearance. Initially, cockpit confusion for a moment that clearance was to 4000 ft. PNF started to change altitude selector to below 11000 ft, then realized it should be back at 11000 ft. Now aircraft trying too hard to capture 11000 ft. I engaged vertical speed mode to slow descent. Thinking I was already at the 50 NM crossing fix (misread raw data DME), I continued very slow descent out of 11000 ft (300 FPM). At about 10400 ft, and 52 NM from dpk in reality, controller mentioned that we weren't quite to 50 NM out yet. No conflict with anybody. We were told just to continue down to 4000 ft. This is one of those frustrating, simple sits that is insidious to aviation, especially because the clearance was given on short notice. Mind set of getting the same clearance after camrn on this arrival for the past yrs plus never having had this multi-level step-down before, was no excuse for not being on top of our game. Also, thought I was already at fix and told PNF I was. This caused him to not really doublechk me. I think a more standard descent clearance might have helped, as we could have just stayed at 11000 ft then just descend to whatever the controller needed after (we are still about 45 NM from destination). Also, [we could] leave original STAR camrn at 11000 ft, which is only 53 NM from dpk anyway. Having flown for many yrs in the USA and europe, it's embarrassing to make such a goof on a clear day in familiar airspace! Have to keep fighting that disease of letting your guard down. I have enjoyed and learned much from callback newsletter and I'm a subscriber to it.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A CL604 FO, THE PF, DEPARTED THE FIX TOO SOON ON THE CAMRN 3 STAR INTO FRG, FLYING WHAT HE EXPECTED TO HEAR.
Narrative: CAVU DAY. FINISHING CAMRN 3 STAR TO 11000 FT INTO FRG ARPT. FLOWN THIS ARR AND ARPT HUNDREDS OF TIMES IN THE PAST YRS. JUST PRIOR TO REACHING 11000 FT, CTLR GAVE UNEXPECTED XING CLRNC TO 50 NM FROM DPK AT 11000 FT AND 25 NM AT 4000 FT. ACFT DSNDING ON VNAV THROUGH APPROX 11000 FT AT 1500 FPM TO MEET CAMRN AT 11000 FT STAR AT THE TIME OF CLRNC. INITIALLY, COCKPIT CONFUSION FOR A MOMENT THAT CLRNC WAS TO 4000 FT. PNF STARTED TO CHANGE ALT SELECTOR TO BELOW 11000 FT, THEN REALIZED IT SHOULD BE BACK AT 11000 FT. NOW ACFT TRYING TOO HARD TO CAPTURE 11000 FT. I ENGAGED VERT SPD MODE TO SLOW DSCNT. THINKING I WAS ALREADY AT THE 50 NM XING FIX (MISREAD RAW DATA DME), I CONTINUED VERY SLOW DSCNT OUT OF 11000 FT (300 FPM). AT ABOUT 10400 FT, AND 52 NM FROM DPK IN REALITY, CTLR MENTIONED THAT WE WEREN'T QUITE TO 50 NM OUT YET. NO CONFLICT WITH ANYBODY. WE WERE TOLD JUST TO CONTINUE DOWN TO 4000 FT. THIS IS ONE OF THOSE FRUSTRATING, SIMPLE SITS THAT IS INSIDIOUS TO AVIATION, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THE CLRNC WAS GIVEN ON SHORT NOTICE. MIND SET OF GETTING THE SAME CLRNC AFTER CAMRN ON THIS ARR FOR THE PAST YRS PLUS NEVER HAVING HAD THIS MULTI-LEVEL STEP-DOWN BEFORE, WAS NO EXCUSE FOR NOT BEING ON TOP OF OUR GAME. ALSO, THOUGHT I WAS ALREADY AT FIX AND TOLD PNF I WAS. THIS CAUSED HIM TO NOT REALLY DOUBLECHK ME. I THINK A MORE STANDARD DSCNT CLRNC MIGHT HAVE HELPED, AS WE COULD HAVE JUST STAYED AT 11000 FT THEN JUST DSND TO WHATEVER THE CTLR NEEDED AFTER (WE ARE STILL ABOUT 45 NM FROM DEST). ALSO, [WE COULD] LEAVE ORIGINAL STAR CAMRN AT 11000 FT, WHICH IS ONLY 53 NM FROM DPK ANYWAY. HAVING FLOWN FOR MANY YRS IN THE USA AND EUROPE, IT'S EMBARRASSING TO MAKE SUCH A GOOF ON A CLR DAY IN FAMILIAR AIRSPACE! HAVE TO KEEP FIGHTING THAT DISEASE OF LETTING YOUR GUARD DOWN. I HAVE ENJOYED AND LEARNED MUCH FROM CALLBACK NEWSLETTER AND I'M A SUBSCRIBER TO IT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.