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Attributes | |
ACN | 512011 |
Time | |
Date | 200105 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : msy.airport |
State Reference | LA |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi ground : holding |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : msy.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial |
ASRS Report | 512011 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 511837 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe incursion : runway non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 300 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airport Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Airport |
Situations | |
Airport | markings : msy.airport |
Narrative:
Location: runway 10 and taxiway a, pre takeoff. We were holding short of runway 10 full length with a wheels up time of XA07Z. 2 planes (B737 and a learjet) taxied behind us that needed to take off before we could. Tower instructed us to taxi onto runway 10 eastbound and exit at taxiway a holding short of taxiway east so that another B737 could taxi by us on taxiway east to full length runway 10. We followed tower's instructions and held short of taxiway east on taxiway a. As we stopped, we questioned whether the tail of our plane was across the hold short line. We told tower that we were not sure about this situation. Tower told us that if we were pulled up to taxiway east that we were ok. The captain opened the window and looked back to see if our tail was over the line but could not tell. 2 planes took off of runway 10. The wbound B737 taxied by us and tower cleared us to taxi back to full length runway 10 on taxiway east. As we turned the corner and looked back (now that we could see the hold short line) we both agreed that our tail was probably over the hold short line when the 2 planes took off of runway 10. Supplemental information from acn 511837: there was no part of my aircraft within 100 yards of the runway, but the hold line is painted far from runway edge. Runway 10 is a CAT ii runway, but I saw the markings as a runway safety area hold line and not as a critical area hold.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: THE FLC OF AN S80 QUERIES THE GND CTLR REGARDING THEIR TAIL CLRNC FROM THE HOLD LINE AND RWY NEAR RWY 10 AND TXWY E AT MSY, LA.
Narrative: LOCATION: RWY 10 AND TXWY A, PRE TKOF. WE WERE HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 10 FULL LENGTH WITH A WHEELS UP TIME OF XA07Z. 2 PLANES (B737 AND A LEARJET) TAXIED BEHIND US THAT NEEDED TO TAKE OFF BEFORE WE COULD. TWR INSTRUCTED US TO TAXI ONTO RWY 10 EBOUND AND EXIT AT TXWY A HOLDING SHORT OF TXWY E SO THAT ANOTHER B737 COULD TAXI BY US ON TXWY E TO FULL LENGTH RWY 10. WE FOLLOWED TWR'S INSTRUCTIONS AND HELD SHORT OF TXWY E ON TXWY A. AS WE STOPPED, WE QUESTIONED WHETHER THE TAIL OF OUR PLANE WAS ACROSS THE HOLD SHORT LINE. WE TOLD TWR THAT WE WERE NOT SURE ABOUT THIS SIT. TWR TOLD US THAT IF WE WERE PULLED UP TO TXWY E THAT WE WERE OK. THE CAPT OPENED THE WINDOW AND LOOKED BACK TO SEE IF OUR TAIL WAS OVER THE LINE BUT COULD NOT TELL. 2 PLANES TOOK OFF OF RWY 10. THE WBOUND B737 TAXIED BY US AND TWR CLRED US TO TAXI BACK TO FULL LENGTH RWY 10 ON TXWY E. AS WE TURNED THE CORNER AND LOOKED BACK (NOW THAT WE COULD SEE THE HOLD SHORT LINE) WE BOTH AGREED THAT OUR TAIL WAS PROBABLY OVER THE HOLD SHORT LINE WHEN THE 2 PLANES TOOK OFF OF RWY 10. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 511837: THERE WAS NO PART OF MY ACFT WITHIN 100 YARDS OF THE RWY, BUT THE HOLD LINE IS PAINTED FAR FROM RWY EDGE. RWY 10 IS A CAT II RWY, BUT I SAW THE MARKINGS AS A RWY SAFETY AREA HOLD LINE AND NOT AS A CRITICAL AREA HOLD.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.