Narrative:

Departed rice lake, wi (krpd), at XA00 VFR from runway 19 said WX was wind 250 KTS at 8 degrees visibility 7 ceiling 3000 ft broken 3500 ovc. After takeoff the pilot flying raised the landing gear and made a left turn out of the pattern. I announced on CTAF that we would be departing the area to the southeast. The pilot flying leveled off at 2500 ft MSL and I contacted ZMP on frequency 125.3 I told the controller that we were VFR at 2500 ft having just departed rice lake and that I would like to pick up an IFR clearance to kenosha, wi (our filed destination). The controller asked my altitude. I replied 2500 ft (the controller) said it was unable to give us a clearance until we were at 3000 ft which would put us just below the bases of the cloud layer. I told the controller that we would like the clearance before climbing. Controller gave us only a squawk code no clearance. I maintained 2500 ft (1400 ft AGL) in VFR condition. The controller then told me again that he couldn't give me a clearance until we were at 3200 ft, the MSA in the krpd area. I chose to maintain VFR at 2500 ft. At aprox 12 NM southeast of krpd we were able to climb to 3200 ft (MSL). I advised the controller of this. The controller then asked our position. I told him 16 NM southeast of rpd at 3200 ft. Finally 17 NM southeast of the departure airport after being in contact with the center since aprox 1 NM southeast we were given an IFR clearance. The controller further added 'in the future I would suggest picking up the clearance on the ground.' I responded 'roger.' after an additional 10 min the controller again came on and told me that I should pick up IFR clearance on the ground if unable to reach 3200 ft. I again responded that I understood. The controller continued that 'it would be much safer for me if you picked up your clearance on the ground, safer for you too.' I wanted to reply but chose not to 'it would have been safer to give us the clearance after the first contact rather than have us at 2500 ft for 16 mi.' again, I chose not to say anything except 'point taken.' had the WX been worse I would have called FSS and gotten a void time. Because the WX was VFR I thought it would be easier to depart VFR and pick up my clearance immediately after departure. I guess I had forgotten that you needed to be at MSA to pick up an IFR clearance. I had been under the impression that as long as you could maintain VFR and radio communication with the controling agency that you could pick up an IFR clearance. This may have been due to the fact that the eau claire, wi, airport (33.6 NM southeast of rpd) has center radio coverage to the ground on frequency 125.3 and it has been a common practice to depart VFR and then pick up a clearance on 125.3 immediately after departure. (Also ZMP does not have radar coverage in the rpd or eau area below about 5000 ft.) I am confused as to how it can be safe to depart with a void time clearance and climb from the airport to the MSA and above without radar coverage but, as the controller pointed out, it is unsafe to depart VFR in VFR conditions establish radio contact, to pick up a clearance immediately after departure from the same airport. In either case radio contact was established within the airport traffic pattern.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A BE20 PLT EXCHANGES DIALOGUE WITH ZMP CTLR ABOUT THE PROC USED IN OBTAINING AN IFR CLRNC IF FLT DEPARTS VFR BUT ALT IS LESS THAN MSA NEAR ARPT AT RPD, WI.

Narrative: DEPARTED RICE LAKE, WI (KRPD), AT XA00 VFR FROM RWY 19 SAID WX WAS WIND 250 KTS AT 8 DEGS VIS 7 CEILING 3000 FT BKN 3500 OVC. AFTER TKOF THE PLT FLYING RAISED THE LANDING GEAR AND MADE A LEFT TURN OUT OF THE PATTERN. I ANNOUNCED ON CTAF THAT WE WOULD BE DEPARTING THE AREA TO THE SE. THE PLT FLYING LEVELED OFF AT 2500 FT MSL AND I CONTACTED ZMP ON FREQ 125.3 I TOLD THE CTLR THAT WE WERE VFR AT 2500 FT HAVING JUST DEPARTED RICE LAKE AND THAT I WOULD LIKE TO PICK UP AN IFR CLRNC TO KENOSHA, WI (OUR FILED DEST). THE CTLR ASKED MY ALT. I REPLIED 2500 FT (THE CTLR) SAID IT WAS UNABLE TO GIVE US A CLRNC UNTIL WE WERE AT 3000 FT WHICH WOULD PUT US JUST BELOW THE BASES OF THE CLOUD LAYER. I TOLD THE CTLR THAT WE WOULD LIKE THE CLRNC BEFORE CLIMBING. CTLR GAVE US ONLY A SQUAWK CODE NO CLRNC. I MAINTAINED 2500 FT (1400 FT AGL) IN VFR CONDITION. THE CTLR THEN TOLD ME AGAIN THAT HE COULDN'T GIVE ME A CLRNC UNTIL WE WERE AT 3200 FT, THE MSA IN THE KRPD AREA. I CHOSE TO MAINTAIN VFR AT 2500 FT. AT APROX 12 NM SE OF KRPD WE WERE ABLE TO CLIMB TO 3200 FT (MSL). I ADVISED THE CTLR OF THIS. THE CTLR THEN ASKED OUR POS. I TOLD HIM 16 NM SE OF RPD AT 3200 FT. FINALLY 17 NM SE OF THE DEP ARPT AFTER BEING IN CONTACT WITH THE CENTER SINCE APROX 1 NM SE WE WERE GIVEN AN IFR CLRNC. THE CTLR FURTHER ADDED 'IN THE FUTURE I WOULD SUGGEST PICKING UP THE CLRNC ON THE GND.' I RESPONDED 'ROGER.' AFTER AN ADDITIONAL 10 MIN THE CTLR AGAIN CAME ON AND TOLD ME THAT I SHOULD PICK UP IFR CLRNC ON THE GND IF UNABLE TO REACH 3200 FT. I AGAIN RESPONDED THAT I UNDERSTOOD. THE CTLR CONTINUED THAT 'IT WOULD BE MUCH SAFER FOR ME IF YOU PICKED UP YOUR CLRNC ON THE GND, SAFER FOR YOU TOO.' I WANTED TO REPLY BUT CHOSE NOT TO 'IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SAFER TO GIVE US THE CLRNC AFTER THE FIRST CONTACT RATHER THAN HAVE US AT 2500 FT FOR 16 MI.' AGAIN, I CHOSE NOT TO SAY ANYTHING EXCEPT 'POINT TAKEN.' HAD THE WX BEEN WORSE I WOULD HAVE CALLED FSS AND GOTTEN A VOID TIME. BECAUSE THE WX WAS VFR I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE EASIER TO DEPART VFR AND PICK UP MY CLRNC IMMEDIATELY AFTER DEP. I GUESS I HAD FORGOTTEN THAT YOU NEEDED TO BE AT MSA TO PICK UP AN IFR CLRNC. I HAD BEEN UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT AS LONG AS YOU COULD MAINTAIN VFR AND RADIO COM WITH THE CTLING AGENCY THAT YOU COULD PICK UP AN IFR CLRNC. THIS MAY HAVE BEEN DUE TO THE FACT THAT THE EAU CLAIRE, WI, ARPT (33.6 NM SE OF RPD) HAS CENTER RADIO COVERAGE TO THE GND ON FREQ 125.3 AND IT HAS BEEN A COMMON PRACTICE TO DEPART VFR AND THEN PICK UP A CLRNC ON 125.3 IMMEDIATELY AFTER DEP. (ALSO ZMP DOES NOT HAVE RADAR COVERAGE IN THE RPD OR EAU AREA BELOW ABOUT 5000 FT.) I AM CONFUSED AS TO HOW IT CAN BE SAFE TO DEPART WITH A VOID TIME CLRNC AND CLIMB FROM THE ARPT TO THE MSA AND ABOVE WITHOUT RADAR COVERAGE BUT, AS THE CTLR POINTED OUT, IT IS UNSAFE TO DEPART VFR IN VFR CONDITIONS ESTABLISH RADIO CONTACT, TO PICK UP A CLRNC IMMEDIATELY AFTER DEP FROM THE SAME ARPT. IN EITHER CASE RADIO CONTACT WAS ESTABLISHED WITHIN THE ARPT TFC PATTERN.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.