<< >> NASA ASRS Report 533068, December 2001

C560 flight crew disagree on visual approach clearance issued by D10 into dal, descending prior to being established on final approach.

Attributes
ACN	533068
Time
Date	200112
Day	Thu
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : dfw.airport
State Reference	TX
Altitude	msl single value : 3000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : d10.tracon tower : det.tower
Operator	general aviation : corporate
Make Model Name	Citation V
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : corporate
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 3400 flight time type : 400
ASRS Report	533068
Person 2
Affiliation	company : corporate
Function	flight crew : first officer
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : insufficient time
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Airspace Structure Flight Crew Human Performance Airport ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Inter Facility Coordination Failure Pilot Deviation

Narrative:

I was captain. We were on an IFR flight plan, and my first officer was the PF. We proceeded inbound to dal via the cedar creek arrival. Approach control gave us radar vector for a left downwind to runway 13L, and advised us to call the field in sight. At approximately abeam the numbers, we called field in sight. The approach controller replied, 'aircraft, cleared for the visual runway 13L, maintain 3000 ft till final, contact the tower.' I then contacted dal tower and they advised 'cleared to land runway 13L.' the confusion began when the first officer began to descend from 3000 ft prior to reaching final. He stated that once the tower cleared us to land that he felt we could maneuver and descend at will to land on runway 13L. I felt we must maintain 3000 ft till final as advised by the approach controller. There was some discussion in the cockpit about what to do. During this discussion we descended to approximately pattern altitude before turning final runway 13L. I feel these conditions and term are not presented in clear enough terms. I think the tower should also state 'maintain 3000 ft till established on final.' I contacted the dal tower to ask about the procedure, and they stated it was a 'big gray area.'

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: C560 FLC DISAGREE ON VISUAL APCH CLRNC ISSUED BY D10 INTO DAL, DSNDING PRIOR TO BEING ESTABLISHED ON FINAL APCH.

Narrative: I WAS CAPT. WE WERE ON AN IFR FLT PLAN, AND MY FO WAS THE PF. WE PROCEEDED INBOUND TO DAL VIA THE CEDAR CREEK ARR. APCH CTL GAVE US RADAR VECTOR FOR A L DOWNWIND TO RWY 13L, AND ADVISED US TO CALL THE FIELD IN SIGHT. AT APPROX ABEAM THE NUMBERS, WE CALLED FIELD IN SIGHT. THE APCH CTLR REPLIED, 'ACFT, CLRED FOR THE VISUAL RWY 13L, MAINTAIN 3000 FT TILL FINAL, CONTACT THE TWR.' I THEN CONTACTED DAL TWR AND THEY ADVISED 'CLRED TO LAND RWY 13L.' THE CONFUSION BEGAN WHEN THE FO BEGAN TO DSND FROM 3000 FT PRIOR TO REACHING FINAL. HE STATED THAT ONCE THE TWR CLRED US TO LAND THAT HE FELT WE COULD MANEUVER AND DSND AT WILL TO LAND ON RWY 13L. I FELT WE MUST MAINTAIN 3000 FT TILL FINAL AS ADVISED BY THE APCH CTLR. THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION IN THE COCKPIT ABOUT WHAT TO DO. DURING THIS DISCUSSION WE DSNDED TO APPROX PATTERN ALT BEFORE TURNING FINAL RWY 13L. I FEEL THESE CONDITIONS AND TERM ARE NOT PRESENTED IN CLR ENOUGH TERMS. I THINK THE TWR SHOULD ALSO STATE 'MAINTAIN 3000 FT TILL ESTABLISHED ON FINAL.' I CONTACTED THE DAL TWR TO ASK ABOUT THE PROC, AND THEY STATED IT WAS A 'BIG GRAY AREA.'

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.