Giii flight crew encounter moderate turbulence executing the skebr RNAV STAR into las claiming the S...

Attributes
ACN	540829
Time
Date	200203
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : las.vortac
State Reference	NV
Altitude	msl single value : 9000
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Weather Elements	Turbulence
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : l30.tracon
Operator	general aviation : corporate
Make Model Name	Gulfstream III
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	descent : vacating altitude
Route In Use	arrival star : skebr 1
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : corporate
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 70 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 2600
ASRS Report	540829
Person 2
Affiliation	company : corporate
Function	flight crew : first officer
Events
Anomaly	altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude inflight encounter : turbulence inflight encounter : weather other anomaly
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	controller : issued advisory flight crew : exited adverse environment flight crew : regained aircraft control flight crew : returned to assigned altitude
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Environmental Factor FAA ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure Weather Chart Or Publication
Primary Problem	Environmental Factor
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : l30.tracon
Chart	star : skebr rnav

Narrative:

While on the final phase of the skebr 1 (RNAV) arrival to las, we were given a vector and told to expect turbulence on arrival due to high winds over the mountains. While on a vector over the spring mountains, we got moderate plus turbulence, plus strong up and down drafts. I lost 400 ft at one point. These are new RNAV arrs and are being tested. Many pilots, including myself, have told las approach that they need to change this procedure because of sits like this. WX (thunderstorms, ice, turbulence) up and down drafts) are prevalent in this physical location all the time. It is no place to have arrs come in at low altitude. I'm going to look into filing a different flight plan suffix to get another arrival from now on. My passenger are tired of getting beat up too. It's unusual for a gulfstream to encounter turns where the bank is going 300 ft and pitch up and down 10 degrees or more. Thanks for the ASRS program. You guys have a necessary purpose. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter advised that his job took him away from a planned aviation community meeting with the FAA which was scheduled to provide user input to the new RNAV procedures into las. The reporter advised that, due to WX factors and turbulence, he would sooner take vectors an additional 10-20 mi further east of the airport rather than fly the present skebr STAR. Callback conversation with las specialist revealed the following information: advised that a user meeting was held early this month to obtain input on the new RNAV procedures. As a result of this meeting, the skebr STAR will be amended. 2 intersection crossing altitudes that cross the mountainous terrain entering the valley to las will be raised an additional 1000 ft. Other cartographic depictions will be amended to more closely reflect FAA charting standards. The specialist advised that another user meeting is scheduled oct/xa/02 to again obtain and respond to user concerns.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: GIII FLC ENCOUNTER MODERATE TURB EXECUTING THE SKEBR RNAV STAR INTO LAS CLAIMING THE STAR NEEDS AMENDMENT DUE TO RTE PROX TO TERRAIN.

Narrative: WHILE ON THE FINAL PHASE OF THE SKEBR 1 (RNAV) ARR TO LAS, WE WERE GIVEN A VECTOR AND TOLD TO EXPECT TURB ON ARR DUE TO HIGH WINDS OVER THE MOUNTAINS. WHILE ON A VECTOR OVER THE SPRING MOUNTAINS, WE GOT MODERATE PLUS TURB, PLUS STRONG UP AND DOWN DRAFTS. I LOST 400 FT AT ONE POINT. THESE ARE NEW RNAV ARRS AND ARE BEING TESTED. MANY PLTS, INCLUDING MYSELF, HAVE TOLD LAS APCH THAT THEY NEED TO CHANGE THIS PROC BECAUSE OF SITS LIKE THIS. WX (TSTMS, ICE, TURB) UP AND DOWN DRAFTS) ARE PREVALENT IN THIS PHYSICAL LOCATION ALL THE TIME. IT IS NO PLACE TO HAVE ARRS COME IN AT LOW ALT. I'M GOING TO LOOK INTO FILING A DIFFERENT FLT PLAN SUFFIX TO GET ANOTHER ARR FROM NOW ON. MY PAX ARE TIRED OF GETTING BEAT UP TOO. IT'S UNUSUAL FOR A GULFSTREAM TO ENCOUNTER TURNS WHERE THE BANK IS GOING 300 FT AND PITCH UP AND DOWN 10 DEGS OR MORE. THANKS FOR THE ASRS PROGRAM. YOU GUYS HAVE A NECESSARY PURPOSE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR ADVISED THAT HIS JOB TOOK HIM AWAY FROM A PLANNED AVIATION COMMUNITY MEETING WITH THE FAA WHICH WAS SCHEDULED TO PROVIDE USER INPUT TO THE NEW RNAV PROCS INTO LAS. THE RPTR ADVISED THAT, DUE TO WX FACTORS AND TURB, HE WOULD SOONER TAKE VECTORS AN ADDITIONAL 10-20 MI FURTHER E OF THE ARPT RATHER THAN FLY THE PRESENT SKEBR STAR. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH LAS SPECIALIST REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: ADVISED THAT A USER MEETING WAS HELD EARLY THIS MONTH TO OBTAIN INPUT ON THE NEW RNAV PROCS. AS A RESULT OF THIS MEETING, THE SKEBR STAR WILL BE AMENDED. 2 INTXN XING ALTS THAT CROSS THE MOUNTAINOUS TERRAIN ENTERING THE VALLEY TO LAS WILL BE RAISED AN ADDITIONAL 1000 FT. OTHER CARTOGRAPHIC DEPICTIONS WILL BE AMENDED TO MORE CLOSELY REFLECT FAA CHARTING STANDARDS. THE SPECIALIST ADVISED THAT ANOTHER USER MEETING IS SCHEDULED OCT/XA/02 TO AGAIN OBTAIN AND RESPOND TO USER CONCERNS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Giii flight crew encounter moderate turbulence executing the skebr RNAV STAR into las claiming the STAR needs amendment due to route proximity to terrain.