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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 574851 |
Time | |
Date | 200302 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : las.airport |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | msl single value : 7000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : l30.tracon tower : las.tower tower : slc.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff climbout : initial climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure sid : n/s |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 1300 |
ASRS Report | 574851 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Company |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
I was the first officer on flight XXX (las-pit) departing klas at approximately XA00. Our pre departure clearance's copy attached -- official copy can be requested through company dispatch reads: '...las LAS1 dvc J146....' often, we receive the aaces 2 departure via clearance delivery. However, we cannot accept this SID due to our B757-200's not being certified to fly RNAV departures. On this specific flight, we received the LAS1 via pdcs, which is a non RNAV departure and did not require a call to clearance delivery for an alternate departure. Soon after switching from tower to departure control, we were flying runway heading. We responded we were and were told to fly directly to aaces and then were queried as to why we didn't follow the aaces SID. We told them we were given the LAS1 departure. The next statement by ATC was to 'call us at 702-262-5925 upon arrival in pit.' during that conversation, the controller told the captain she expected us to make the aaces 2 turn after takeoff, because she was under the assumption that we were given the aaces 2 SID and not the LAS1. When she said her data block indicated our pre departure clearance read aaces 2, the captain replied that was not the departure we were given and could provide her with a hard copy of our pre departure clearance. That was done. Clearly, there is a problem with communications/understanding somewhere in the system. It may be her assumption that all RNAV equipped airplanes are certified for RNAV departures caused her to assume we were on the aaces 2? Or maybe, since the first fix of the LAS1 is aaces, she thought we should fly the aaces 2 profile? She made the comment she had a similar problem and had just spoken with a company flight. Regardless, the 2 instrument departures are very different: aaces 2 -- runway 19L: 'climb via 190 course to dealr, then via 219 course to idale, then turn to a 100 course to hitme...' LAS1 -- runway 19L: 'climb via runway heading (or other assigned heading). Thence, via radar vectors to transition or assigned route...' we simply followed our clearance's SID instructions for our assigned runway. Please inform me of the follow-up of your investigation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LAS B757 DEP DISCREPANCY BTWN PDCS CLRNC AND ATC DISPLAYED CLRNC.
Narrative: I WAS THE FO ON FLT XXX (LAS-PIT) DEPARTING KLAS AT APPROX XA00. OUR PDC'S COPY ATTACHED -- OFFICIAL COPY CAN BE REQUESTED THROUGH COMPANY DISPATCH READS: '...LAS LAS1 DVC J146....' OFTEN, WE RECEIVE THE AACES 2 DEP VIA CLRNC DELIVERY. HOWEVER, WE CANNOT ACCEPT THIS SID DUE TO OUR B757-200'S NOT BEING CERTIFIED TO FLY RNAV DEPS. ON THIS SPECIFIC FLT, WE RECEIVED THE LAS1 VIA PDCS, WHICH IS A NON RNAV DEP AND DID NOT REQUIRE A CALL TO CLRNC DELIVERY FOR AN ALTERNATE DEP. SOON AFTER SWITCHING FROM TWR TO DEP CTL, WE WERE FLYING RWY HDG. WE RESPONDED WE WERE AND WERE TOLD TO FLY DIRECTLY TO AACES AND THEN WERE QUERIED AS TO WHY WE DIDN'T FOLLOW THE AACES SID. WE TOLD THEM WE WERE GIVEN THE LAS1 DEP. THE NEXT STATEMENT BY ATC WAS TO 'CALL US AT 702-262-5925 UPON ARR IN PIT.' DURING THAT CONVERSATION, THE CTLR TOLD THE CAPT SHE EXPECTED US TO MAKE THE AACES 2 TURN AFTER TKOF, BECAUSE SHE WAS UNDER THE ASSUMPTION THAT WE WERE GIVEN THE AACES 2 SID AND NOT THE LAS1. WHEN SHE SAID HER DATA BLOCK INDICATED OUR PDC READ AACES 2, THE CAPT REPLIED THAT WAS NOT THE DEP WE WERE GIVEN AND COULD PROVIDE HER WITH A HARD COPY OF OUR PDC. THAT WAS DONE. CLRLY, THERE IS A PROB WITH COMS/UNDERSTANDING SOMEWHERE IN THE SYS. IT MAY BE HER ASSUMPTION THAT ALL RNAV EQUIPPED AIRPLANES ARE CERTIFIED FOR RNAV DEPS CAUSED HER TO ASSUME WE WERE ON THE AACES 2? OR MAYBE, SINCE THE FIRST FIX OF THE LAS1 IS AACES, SHE THOUGHT WE SHOULD FLY THE AACES 2 PROFILE? SHE MADE THE COMMENT SHE HAD A SIMILAR PROB AND HAD JUST SPOKEN WITH A COMPANY FLT. REGARDLESS, THE 2 INST DEPS ARE VERY DIFFERENT: AACES 2 -- RWY 19L: 'CLB VIA 190 COURSE TO DEALR, THEN VIA 219 COURSE TO IDALE, THEN TURN TO A 100 COURSE TO HITME...' LAS1 -- RWY 19L: 'CLB VIA RWY HDG (OR OTHER ASSIGNED HDG). THENCE, VIA RADAR VECTORS TO TRANSITION OR ASSIGNED RTE...' WE SIMPLY FOLLOWED OUR CLRNC'S SID INSTRUCTIONS FOR OUR ASSIGNED RWY. PLEASE INFORM ME OF THE FOLLOW-UP OF YOUR INVESTIGATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.