37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 582680 |
Time | |
Date | 200305 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl single value : 2500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : ewr.tower |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Yankee |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | other ndb |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Route In Use | enroute other |
Flight Plan | None |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : private |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 22 flight time total : 1261 flight time type : 500 |
ASRS Report | 582680 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : local |
Events | |
Anomaly | airspace violation : entry non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance Navigational Facility |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
I was on a flight from 4n1 to ldj on 2 different days. Since the exact same thing happened twice, I thought it should be reported to you. Often, when ny approach is too busy for flight following into the class B, I call morristown tower and request a ns transition at 2500 ft. In both of these cases, morristown tower approved the transition. Once at chatham, I requested a frequency change (granted) and immediately called newark tower. On both days, the following conversation took place: I reported over chatham, level 2500 ft, and requested direct linden. Newark tower advised you're in the class B. I checked that my altimeter setting was correct. I advised I was over chatham, NDB. Newark tower stated that's in the B airspace at 2500 ft. Rather than argue, I just asked for a clearance to linden, which was granted. The first time this happened, I assumed there was an inexperienced controller. But today, it happened again. I asked the controller to look at the chart. She said the class B 'begins at 1800 ft.' I informed her that on my charts, which are current, the class B begins at 3000 ft over chatham NDB. On the second occasion, I was avoiding citation traffic, and beginning a descent for landing. This was the worst possible time to get incorrect information. Once on the ground, I confirmed that the class B airspace begins at 3000 ft MSL. The second time this happened, I called newark tower and told them the problem. The controller said that no violation took place, since I was cleared into the class B. I wasn't sure how to fix this problem.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AA-1 PLT IS CONFUSED WITH ATC'S ASSERTION THAT HE ENTERED CLASS B NEAR EWR.
Narrative: I WAS ON A FLT FROM 4N1 TO LDJ ON 2 DIFFERENT DAYS. SINCE THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED TWICE, I THOUGHT IT SHOULD BE RPTED TO YOU. OFTEN, WHEN NY APCH IS TOO BUSY FOR FLT FOLLOWING INTO THE CLASS B, I CALL MORRISTOWN TWR AND REQUEST A NS TRANSITION AT 2500 FT. IN BOTH OF THESE CASES, MORRISTOWN TWR APPROVED THE TRANSITION. ONCE AT CHATHAM, I REQUESTED A FREQ CHANGE (GRANTED) AND IMMEDIATELY CALLED NEWARK TWR. ON BOTH DAYS, THE FOLLOWING CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE: I RPTED OVER CHATHAM, LEVEL 2500 FT, AND REQUESTED DIRECT LINDEN. NEWARK TWR ADVISED YOU'RE IN THE CLASS B. I CHKED THAT MY ALTIMETER SETTING WAS CORRECT. I ADVISED I WAS OVER CHATHAM, NDB. NEWARK TWR STATED THAT'S IN THE B AIRSPACE AT 2500 FT. RATHER THAN ARGUE, I JUST ASKED FOR A CLRNC TO LINDEN, WHICH WAS GRANTED. THE FIRST TIME THIS HAPPENED, I ASSUMED THERE WAS AN INEXPERIENCED CTLR. BUT TODAY, IT HAPPENED AGAIN. I ASKED THE CTLR TO LOOK AT THE CHART. SHE SAID THE CLASS B 'BEGINS AT 1800 FT.' I INFORMED HER THAT ON MY CHARTS, WHICH ARE CURRENT, THE CLASS B BEGINS AT 3000 FT OVER CHATHAM NDB. ON THE SECOND OCCASION, I WAS AVOIDING CITATION TFC, AND BEGINNING A DSCNT FOR LNDG. THIS WAS THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME TO GET INCORRECT INFO. ONCE ON THE GND, I CONFIRMED THAT THE CLASS B AIRSPACE BEGINS AT 3000 FT MSL. THE SECOND TIME THIS HAPPENED, I CALLED NEWARK TWR AND TOLD THEM THE PROB. THE CTLR SAID THAT NO VIOLATION TOOK PLACE, SINCE I WAS CLRED INTO THE CLASS B. I WASN'T SURE HOW TO FIX THIS PROB.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.