B737 crew concerned with traffic separation with regard to the lead turn during departure from krno.

Attributes
ACN	587566
Time
Date	200307
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : rno.airport
State Reference	NV
Altitude	msl single value : 11000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : rno.tracon
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737-700
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	other
Flight Phase	climbout : intermediate altitude
Route In Use	departure sid : wagge 2
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tracon : rno.tracon
Operator	general aviation : personal
Make Model Name	Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Flight Phase	climbout : intermediate altitude
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 133 flight time total : 6700 flight time type : 737
ASRS Report	587566
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 2200
ASRS Report	587565
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other controllerb other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance

Narrative:

Flight was cleared for the wagge two departure to 15000 ft off of runway 16R following light civil twin that departed 2 mins earlier off of runway 16L. Due to the speed differential, our aircraft was above and abeam the twin when the flight path display directed our aircraft to lead turn the 'wagge' fix in order to establish the 050 degree course to 'jerga' as per the departure. As I was watching the twin, I coupled the aircraft up to the autoplt and had engaged LNAV at about 9000 ft to keep my focus outside on the twin. When the jet started its turn towards 'jerga,' I queried departure as to the altitude the twin was cleared to as our projected flight path took us right over it. Departure stated that the twin was VFR and had no limit on its climb and that he expected us to fly to the 'wagge' fix before starting our turn, but to go ahead and continue our turn left to 50 degrees and resume the departure. I disconnected the autoplt at this point and pulled up and behind the twin as I was concerned about being belly up to an aircraft whose intentions were not clearly known to me. I then queried departure as to whether 'wagge' was a mandatory flyover fix because it was not marked as such on the chart. Departure stated they did in fact expect us to fly to the 13 DME fix before turning usually. Although there was no danger of collision, as I do believe we had at least 2000 ft on the twin, sits like this are a cause of concern for me. Usually there is some sort of positive recognition between the 2 aircraft involved if there is to be mutual VFR separation in effect. The hair on the back of my neck started to raise a little on this one. It is standard procedure for IFR navigation to lead turn fixes unless specifically printed otherwise. In this case the 114 degree left turn at 250 KTS required almost a 3 NM lead. If this is not what departure wanted, then I think standardized notation would help clear the problem in the future.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B737 CREW CONCERNED WITH TFC SEPARATION WITH REGARD TO THE LEAD TURN DURING DEP FROM KRNO.

Narrative: FLT WAS CLRED FOR THE WAGGE TWO DEP TO 15000 FT OFF OF RWY 16R FOLLOWING LIGHT CIVIL TWIN THAT DEPARTED 2 MINS EARLIER OFF OF RWY 16L. DUE TO THE SPD DIFFERENTIAL, OUR ACFT WAS ABOVE AND ABEAM THE TWIN WHEN THE FLT PATH DISPLAY DIRECTED OUR ACFT TO LEAD TURN THE 'WAGGE' FIX IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH THE 050 DEG COURSE TO 'JERGA' AS PER THE DEP. AS I WAS WATCHING THE TWIN, I COUPLED THE ACFT UP TO THE AUTOPLT AND HAD ENGAGED LNAV AT ABOUT 9000 FT TO KEEP MY FOCUS OUTSIDE ON THE TWIN. WHEN THE JET STARTED ITS TURN TOWARDS 'JERGA,' I QUERIED DEP AS TO THE ALT THE TWIN WAS CLRED TO AS OUR PROJECTED FLT PATH TOOK US RIGHT OVER IT. DEP STATED THAT THE TWIN WAS VFR AND HAD NO LIMIT ON ITS CLB AND THAT HE EXPECTED US TO FLY TO THE 'WAGGE' FIX BEFORE STARTING OUR TURN, BUT TO GO AHEAD AND CONTINUE OUR TURN L TO 50 DEGS AND RESUME THE DEP. I DISCONNECTED THE AUTOPLT AT THIS POINT AND PULLED UP AND BEHIND THE TWIN AS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT BEING BELLY UP TO AN ACFT WHOSE INTENTIONS WERE NOT CLRLY KNOWN TO ME. I THEN QUERIED DEP AS TO WHETHER 'WAGGE' WAS A MANDATORY FLYOVER FIX BECAUSE IT WAS NOT MARKED AS SUCH ON THE CHART. DEP STATED THEY DID IN FACT EXPECT US TO FLY TO THE 13 DME FIX BEFORE TURNING USUALLY. ALTHOUGH THERE WAS NO DANGER OF COLLISION, AS I DO BELIEVE WE HAD AT LEAST 2000 FT ON THE TWIN, SITS LIKE THIS ARE A CAUSE OF CONCERN FOR ME. USUALLY THERE IS SOME SORT OF POSITIVE RECOGNITION BTWN THE 2 ACFT INVOLVED IF THERE IS TO BE MUTUAL VFR SEPARATION IN EFFECT. THE HAIR ON THE BACK OF MY NECK STARTED TO RAISE A LITTLE ON THIS ONE. IT IS STANDARD PROC FOR IFR NAV TO LEAD TURN FIXES UNLESS SPECIFICALLY PRINTED OTHERWISE. IN THIS CASE THE 114 DEG L TURN AT 250 KTS REQUIRED ALMOST A 3 NM LEAD. IF THIS IS NOT WHAT DEP WANTED, THEN I THINK STANDARDIZED NOTATION WOULD HELP CLR THE PROB IN THE FUTURE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.