P31 controller questions military-FAA inability to resolve ongoing claims of MOA usage, culpability ...

Attributes
ACN	607094
Time
Date	200402
Day	Tue
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : nse.tacan
State Reference	FL
Altitude	msl single value : 13000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : p31.tracon
Operator	other
Make Model Name	Mentor (T-34)
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Flight Phase	other
Route In Use	enroute airway : v198.airway
Flight Plan	None
Person 1
Affiliation	government : faa
Function	controller : approach
Qualification	controller : radar controller : non radar
Experience	controller limited radar : 3 controller non radar : 3 controller radar : 11 controller time certified in position1 : 10
ASRS Report	607094
Person 2
Affiliation	government : military
Function	instruction : trainee
Events
Anomaly	airspace violation : entry other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	none taken : unable
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Airspace Structure ATC Human Performance FAA
Primary Problem	FAA
Air Traffic Incident	Inter Facility Coordination Failure

Narrative:

I observed an XXXX squawk maneuvering aerobatic ally at and below 13000 ft just north of V198/241 degree radial. Local T34 trainers squawk XXXX during their aerobatic training, but are not required to receive TA's and control instructions from ATC. This area is also an arrival corridor where ZJX feeds commercial airline traffic to pensacola TRACON descending to 11000 ft. On 2 occasions that I am aware of in 2003, commercial airliners carrying passenger have been involved in near midair collision's with T34's conducting aerobatic training in pensacola TRACON's airspace. The first near midair collision involved an MD80 in feb/03. The second involved a commuter CL600 in sep/03. The navy and the FAA are well aware of this potentially lethal mix of military aerobatic training and commercial/civil traffic. The navy claims they are perfectly legal performing such maneuvers in said airspace, as they are applying VFR and see-and-avoid separation from other traffic. The particular maneuver I witnessed today is known locally as ocf, or out-of-control flight. I leave it to the navy to explain how one applies see-and-avoid while hurtling out-of-control from 13000 ft.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: P31 CTLR QUESTIONS MIL-FAA INABILITY TO RESOLVE ONGOING CLAIMS OF MOA USAGE, CULPABILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR MIL TRAINING ACFT OPERATING THROUGH A VICTOR AIRWAY WITHOUT A P31 FREQ REQUIREMENT.

Narrative: I OBSERVED AN XXXX SQUAWK MANEUVERING AEROBATIC ALLY AT AND BELOW 13000 FT JUST N OF V198/241 DEG RADIAL. LOCAL T34 TRAINERS SQUAWK XXXX DURING THEIR AEROBATIC TRAINING, BUT ARE NOT REQUIRED TO RECEIVE TA'S AND CTL INSTRUCTIONS FROM ATC. THIS AREA IS ALSO AN ARR CORRIDOR WHERE ZJX FEEDS COMMERCIAL AIRLINE TFC TO PENSACOLA TRACON DSNDING TO 11000 FT. ON 2 OCCASIONS THAT I AM AWARE OF IN 2003, COMMERCIAL AIRLINERS CARRYING PAX HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN NMAC'S WITH T34'S CONDUCTING AEROBATIC TRAINING IN PENSACOLA TRACON'S AIRSPACE. THE FIRST NMAC INVOLVED AN MD80 IN FEB/03. THE SECOND INVOLVED A COMMUTER CL600 IN SEP/03. THE NAVY AND THE FAA ARE WELL AWARE OF THIS POTENTIALLY LETHAL MIX OF MIL AEROBATIC TRAINING AND COMMERCIAL/CIVIL TFC. THE NAVY CLAIMS THEY ARE PERFECTLY LEGAL PERFORMING SUCH MANEUVERS IN SAID AIRSPACE, AS THEY ARE APPLYING VFR AND SEE-AND-AVOID SEPARATION FROM OTHER TFC. THE PARTICULAR MANEUVER I WITNESSED TODAY IS KNOWN LOCALLY AS OCF, OR OUT-OF-CTL FLT. I LEAVE IT TO THE NAVY TO EXPLAIN HOW ONE APPLIES SEE-AND-AVOID WHILE HURTLING OUT-OF-CTL FROM 13000 FT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

P31 controller questions military-FAA inability to resolve ongoing claims of MOA usage, culpability and accountability for military training aircraft operating through a victor airway without a P31 frequency requirement.