37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 610119 |
Time | |
Date | 200403 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sna.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Weather Elements | Fog |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : instructional |
Make Model Name | PA-23-250 Turbo Aztec |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 19r |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision arrival : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | instruction : instructor |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 900 flight time type : 35 |
ASRS Report | 610119 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | instruction : trainee |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : required legal separation other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 4500 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
On mar/thu/04 at XA00, a training flight was being conducted from myf to sna under an IFR flight plan. The flight was originally filed for lgb though we decided to go to sna. The flight was between VMC and IMC due to coastal fog moving into the basin with tops around 4700 ft MSL. About 20 mi from ocn, ATC cleared us to 4000 ft MSL and gave us a clearance to expect vectors for ILS runway 19R sna, shortly after we got our first vector. Our flight was now out past the OM and we were southeast of the localizer. ATC gave us a vector. It was a right turn to a northwest direction. I told my student turn left after he was turning right. I then told ATC 'there is a mountain out here (you mean left).' ATC replied 'yes, turn left.' as we were turning back, I could see the peak of the mountain. If we would have kept the turn coming right, it would have been a CFIT accident. ATC then came back and said we were low at 3700 ft MSL. I looked at the altimeter and the altitude was 4000 ft MSL. There was probably a mode C discrepancy. As we were being vectored again, we were cleared right to around a south direction. I said 'you mean a left turn.' ATC said 'yes, left, and track the localizer inbound.' now over lemon (OM) we were established. I came back and said 'are we cleared for the ILS runway 19R approach?' ATC said, 'cleared for ILS runway 19R approach.' we were then handed to sna tower and landed with no further incident. We were almost put in a mountain. Though, due to situational awareness, we were able to take corrective action. I feel the controller was overworked and an ATC supervisor should have given him a break or taken action. This was a dangerous situation and a safety danger to all aircraft on the night of mar/thu/04.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PA28 BEING VECTORED FOR ILS TO SNA IS GIVEN WRONG DIRECTION TURN BY ATC TOWARD TERRAIN.
Narrative: ON MAR/THU/04 AT XA00, A TRAINING FLT WAS BEING CONDUCTED FROM MYF TO SNA UNDER AN IFR FLT PLAN. THE FLT WAS ORIGINALLY FILED FOR LGB THOUGH WE DECIDED TO GO TO SNA. THE FLT WAS BTWN VMC AND IMC DUE TO COASTAL FOG MOVING INTO THE BASIN WITH TOPS AROUND 4700 FT MSL. ABOUT 20 MI FROM OCN, ATC CLRED US TO 4000 FT MSL AND GAVE US A CLRNC TO EXPECT VECTORS FOR ILS RWY 19R SNA, SHORTLY AFTER WE GOT OUR FIRST VECTOR. OUR FLT WAS NOW OUT PAST THE OM AND WE WERE SE OF THE LOC. ATC GAVE US A VECTOR. IT WAS A R TURN TO A NW DIRECTION. I TOLD MY STUDENT TURN L AFTER HE WAS TURNING R. I THEN TOLD ATC 'THERE IS A MOUNTAIN OUT HERE (YOU MEAN L).' ATC REPLIED 'YES, TURN L.' AS WE WERE TURNING BACK, I COULD SEE THE PEAK OF THE MOUNTAIN. IF WE WOULD HAVE KEPT THE TURN COMING R, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A CFIT ACCIDENT. ATC THEN CAME BACK AND SAID WE WERE LOW AT 3700 FT MSL. I LOOKED AT THE ALTIMETER AND THE ALT WAS 4000 FT MSL. THERE WAS PROBABLY A MODE C DISCREPANCY. AS WE WERE BEING VECTORED AGAIN, WE WERE CLRED R TO AROUND A S DIRECTION. I SAID 'YOU MEAN A L TURN.' ATC SAID 'YES, L, AND TRACK THE LOC INBOUND.' NOW OVER LEMON (OM) WE WERE ESTABLISHED. I CAME BACK AND SAID 'ARE WE CLRED FOR THE ILS RWY 19R APCH?' ATC SAID, 'CLRED FOR ILS RWY 19R APCH.' WE WERE THEN HANDED TO SNA TWR AND LANDED WITH NO FURTHER INCIDENT. WE WERE ALMOST PUT IN A MOUNTAIN. THOUGH, DUE TO SITUATIONAL AWARENESS, WE WERE ABLE TO TAKE CORRECTIVE ACTION. I FEEL THE CTLR WAS OVERWORKED AND AN ATC SUPVR SHOULD HAVE GIVEN HIM A BREAK OR TAKEN ACTION. THIS WAS A DANGEROUS SIT AND A SAFETY DANGER TO ALL ACFT ON THE NIGHT OF MAR/THU/04.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.