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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 652811 |
Time | |
Date | 200503 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : teb.airport |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1500 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Weather Elements | Rain |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Canadair/Bombardier Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 6 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 6500 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 652811 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
New york approach was vectoring us at 2000 ft MSL for the ILS to runway 6 at teb. The heading I believe was 180 degrees when nyc called and said; 'turn left to 110 degrees to intercept; cross dandy at 1500 ft MSL; cleared ILS runway 6.' we did not descend to 1500 ft because we were not cleared to dandy nor had we intercepted the ILS localizer. As the localizer and GS captured; we started down out of 2000 ft and dandy passed by us. Nyc approach called telling us we missed a mandatory crossing point. We had just intercepted the localizer course (within 30 degrees) and felt it was now appropriate to descend for we were not on a published segment. Since we were on a vector to join the localizer and not cleared to dandy followed by a crossing limit; we felt descent would be unsafe and inappropriate for the given clearance. It appeared nyc approach was turning other aircraft onto the localizer late; but in our case we were too close to dandy to capture the ILS and cross dandy at 1500 ft without a better clearance (like: direct dandy; cross it at 1500 ft; cleared ILS runway 6). I fly into teb frequently and have never heard this type of clearance I mentioned above.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CRJ FLT CREW DELAYS DSCNT DURING ILS TO RWY 6 AT TEB BECAUSE OF CONFUSION REGARDING ATC CLRNC AND MISSED MANDATORY ALT RESTR.
Narrative: NEW YORK APCH WAS VECTORING US AT 2000 FT MSL FOR THE ILS TO RWY 6 AT TEB. THE HDG I BELIEVE WAS 180 DEGS WHEN NYC CALLED AND SAID; 'TURN L TO 110 DEGS TO INTERCEPT; CROSS DANDY AT 1500 FT MSL; CLRED ILS RWY 6.' WE DID NOT DSND TO 1500 FT BECAUSE WE WERE NOT CLRED TO DANDY NOR HAD WE INTERCEPTED THE ILS LOC. AS THE LOC AND GS CAPTURED; WE STARTED DOWN OUT OF 2000 FT AND DANDY PASSED BY US. NYC APCH CALLED TELLING US WE MISSED A MANDATORY XING POINT. WE HAD JUST INTERCEPTED THE LOC COURSE (WITHIN 30 DEGS) AND FELT IT WAS NOW APPROPRIATE TO DSND FOR WE WERE NOT ON A PUBLISHED SEGMENT. SINCE WE WERE ON A VECTOR TO JOIN THE LOC AND NOT CLRED TO DANDY FOLLOWED BY A XING LIMIT; WE FELT DSCNT WOULD BE UNSAFE AND INAPPROPRIATE FOR THE GIVEN CLRNC. IT APPEARED NYC APCH WAS TURNING OTHER ACFT ONTO THE LOC LATE; BUT IN OUR CASE WE WERE TOO CLOSE TO DANDY TO CAPTURE THE ILS AND CROSS DANDY AT 1500 FT WITHOUT A BETTER CLRNC (LIKE: DIRECT DANDY; CROSS IT AT 1500 FT; CLRED ILS RWY 6). I FLY INTO TEB FREQUENTLY AND HAVE NEVER HEARD THIS TYPE OF CLRNC I MENTIONED ABOVE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.