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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 765818 |
Time | |
Date | 200712 |
Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : zzz.airport |
State Reference | US |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Weather Elements | Ice Rain other |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A319 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : parked |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 280 flight time total : 10500 flight time type : 6500 |
ASRS Report | 765818 |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : company policies |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Aircraft Environmental Factor Weather Company |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Narrative:
I had driven to work from approximately 20 mi north. My car was covered with 1/4 inch of ice when I arrived at the parking lot. The conditions and forecast called for freezing rain. We had just gotten the XA51 local ATIS; which called out 'moderate freezing rain.' this concurred with the observed conditions. We were queried by deice about using a quick shot of 'type 1' off the gate; because it didn't look so bad. After letting them know we would need 'type 4;' I told the gate passenger agent of the WX conditions and the implications. I let her know that the WX conditions prohibited flight; and to inform zone. We decided to hold at the gate until the WX conditions let up. After another 10-15 mins we noticed the rain had let up and got another ATIS. This indicated light freezing rain; and we were no longer in prohibited flying conditions. This appeared to concur with the WX at the time; but not at the time the 'updated' ATIS was published. After that; we deiced; observed the rain change again to moderate; but had no ATIS change. We performed all the prescribed procedures and the rain appeared to slacken. Never was there a change in ATIS. We departed in light precipitation conditions. 2 things are of major concern here. First; I received no less than 4 phone calls or inquiries about the WX conditions. Ramp supervisor; passenger agent; supervisor; flight manager; and even the crew desk inquired. I got the 'you go when you're comfortable' speech from the flight manager and the rest seemed dumbfounded as to why I; the captain; would 'choose' to delay the flight. Ramp supervisor called dispatch; who did not back me; and the flight manager said he was 'aware' of the prohibited flying conditions. However; the attitude was always the condescending; 'whenever you're comfortable.' it wasn't my 'choice' to fly into moderate freezing rain; it was my 'choice' to not deliberately violate an far; and a pretty good one at that. I don't need this from other departments and even our own. Flight operations has to work harder to inform the other departments of both captain's authority/authorized; and respecting the knowledge of the captain. Second; and probably more importantly; I question the ATIS at ZZZ changing; so coincidentally; especially so shortly after being informed that there were 'prohibited' flying conditions. I did not see a concurrence with the actual WX; but a potential bad impact to operations at ZZZ. If the ATIS was just 'providing timely updates;' then why was moderate freezing rain published 10 mins later; when it came down for a 10 min duration? I know you won't ever tell me the truth on these issues; I just want it in the database so it is documented and we can possibly save my or someone else's rear in the future when the company and FAA choose to hang us out.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A319 CAPTAIN IS CONCERNED THAT COMPANY AGENTS FAIL TO RECOGNIZE THE IMPLICATIONS OF FREEZING RAIN ON THE SAFETY OF FLT.
Narrative: I HAD DRIVEN TO WORK FROM APPROX 20 MI N. MY CAR WAS COVERED WITH 1/4 INCH OF ICE WHEN I ARRIVED AT THE PARKING LOT. THE CONDITIONS AND FORECAST CALLED FOR FREEZING RAIN. WE HAD JUST GOTTEN THE XA51 LCL ATIS; WHICH CALLED OUT 'MODERATE FREEZING RAIN.' THIS CONCURRED WITH THE OBSERVED CONDITIONS. WE WERE QUERIED BY DEICE ABOUT USING A QUICK SHOT OF 'TYPE 1' OFF THE GATE; BECAUSE IT DIDN'T LOOK SO BAD. AFTER LETTING THEM KNOW WE WOULD NEED 'TYPE 4;' I TOLD THE GATE PAX AGENT OF THE WX CONDITIONS AND THE IMPLICATIONS. I LET HER KNOW THAT THE WX CONDITIONS PROHIBITED FLT; AND TO INFORM ZONE. WE DECIDED TO HOLD AT THE GATE UNTIL THE WX CONDITIONS LET UP. AFTER ANOTHER 10-15 MINS WE NOTICED THE RAIN HAD LET UP AND GOT ANOTHER ATIS. THIS INDICATED LIGHT FREEZING RAIN; AND WE WERE NO LONGER IN PROHIBITED FLYING CONDITIONS. THIS APPEARED TO CONCUR WITH THE WX AT THE TIME; BUT NOT AT THE TIME THE 'UPDATED' ATIS WAS PUBLISHED. AFTER THAT; WE DEICED; OBSERVED THE RAIN CHANGE AGAIN TO MODERATE; BUT HAD NO ATIS CHANGE. WE PERFORMED ALL THE PRESCRIBED PROCS AND THE RAIN APPEARED TO SLACKEN. NEVER WAS THERE A CHANGE IN ATIS. WE DEPARTED IN LIGHT PRECIP CONDITIONS. 2 THINGS ARE OF MAJOR CONCERN HERE. FIRST; I RECEIVED NO LESS THAN 4 PHONE CALLS OR INQUIRIES ABOUT THE WX CONDITIONS. RAMP SUPVR; PAX AGENT; SUPVR; FLT MGR; AND EVEN THE CREW DESK INQUIRED. I GOT THE 'YOU GO WHEN YOU'RE COMFORTABLE' SPEECH FROM THE FLT MGR AND THE REST SEEMED DUMBFOUNDED AS TO WHY I; THE CAPT; WOULD 'CHOOSE' TO DELAY THE FLT. RAMP SUPVR CALLED DISPATCH; WHO DID NOT BACK ME; AND THE FLT MGR SAID HE WAS 'AWARE' OF THE PROHIBITED FLYING CONDITIONS. HOWEVER; THE ATTITUDE WAS ALWAYS THE CONDESCENDING; 'WHENEVER YOU'RE COMFORTABLE.' IT WASN'T MY 'CHOICE' TO FLY INTO MODERATE FREEZING RAIN; IT WAS MY 'CHOICE' TO NOT DELIBERATELY VIOLATE AN FAR; AND A PRETTY GOOD ONE AT THAT. I DON'T NEED THIS FROM OTHER DEPTS AND EVEN OUR OWN. FLT OPS HAS TO WORK HARDER TO INFORM THE OTHER DEPTS OF BOTH CAPT'S AUTH; AND RESPECTING THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE CAPT. SECOND; AND PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANTLY; I QUESTION THE ATIS AT ZZZ CHANGING; SO COINCIDENTALLY; ESPECIALLY SO SHORTLY AFTER BEING INFORMED THAT THERE WERE 'PROHIBITED' FLYING CONDITIONS. I DID NOT SEE A CONCURRENCE WITH THE ACTUAL WX; BUT A POTENTIAL BAD IMPACT TO OPS AT ZZZ. IF THE ATIS WAS JUST 'PROVIDING TIMELY UPDATES;' THEN WHY WAS MODERATE FREEZING RAIN PUBLISHED 10 MINS LATER; WHEN IT CAME DOWN FOR A 10 MIN DURATION? I KNOW YOU WON'T EVER TELL ME THE TRUTH ON THESE ISSUES; I JUST WANT IT IN THE DATABASE SO IT IS DOCUMENTED AND WE CAN POSSIBLY SAVE MY OR SOMEONE ELSE'S REAR IN THE FUTURE WHEN THE COMPANY AND FAA CHOOSE TO HANG US OUT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.