Narrative:

This is a continuation of the report filed a few days ago. After listening to numerous flight attendants deplaning the aircraft and stating they did not have enough time to situation down before landing; I began to think about why they would not have enough time. The fom states to make a prepare to land announcement at least 5 mins prior to landing. As one of the flight attendants deplaned and complained about not having enough time I asked her if she heard the prepare to land announcement. She responded that she did hear it but it was not enough time. I responded that it was at least 6-7 mins and that our fom states a minimum of 5 mins prior to landing. She still responded that it was not enough time so I decided to just drop the subject for now. As we boarded the bus; the captain got everyone's attention and wanted to debrief the whole crew. He was very intent on telling the flight attendants that we do not take the injury of a flight attendant lightly and that he was concerned why they were standing when we landed. He asked; 'why didn't anyone call the cockpit to let us know.' one of the flight attendants responded that we cannot call the cockpit. So; I thought to myself ok why would you not call the cockpit for a safety of flight issue especially dealing with flight attendants still standing? Is it because we are below 18000 ft is it because we are on approach; what issue would it take for a flight attendant to give us a call on approach? I would want and expect a call if the flight attendants are still preparing the cabin for landing. The captain went on to say that yes we need to know that you are not ready for landing. One of the flight attendants said what would you do if we did call and the captain responded we would go around. One of the flight attendants then said well we don't want you to go around because you might be low on fuel. The captain responded that is not your decision or your issue. I find it disrespectful and very conceited for a flight attendant to start second-guessing the decisions of the flight crew calling us about a safety of flight issue due to her concern of fuel. I would say that her priorities are not where they should be. The captain then asked the flight attendants; 'what would you do if we did not make an announcement?' he went on to say; 'did you listen to my goodbye message to the passenger when I stated the updated time?' no one answered yes and the purser stated the last time I knew we were landing was such and such time. The captain then asked can't you look out the window and see where we are. One of the flight attendants stated that we cannot ask the passenger to open their window shades. Another stated that it was dark out and we cannot tell where we are. The captain asked if anyone heard the gear go down or the flaps extend out. One of the flight attendants on the upper deck said she could not hear the gear go down because she was on the upper deck. Other flight attendants said they were on the main deck and said they could not hear the gear come down. At this point I had heard enough to wonder what if we had a real emergency in the back; what kind of information would I receive and how would this flight attendant crew handle an emergency. Would they even let me know what was happening until we were at the gate and would the information be reliable. Now to address the pilot issues. This was my first trip after IOE and only 3RD time into ZZZZ; this time going in as the secondary relief pilot. As I listened to our captain debrief us after the bus trip he mentioned; 'why couldn't the flight attendants have the cabin prepared for landing? What could we have done different to prevent this situation ?' we talked about a few different ideas but the one that makes the most sense is that most crews probably make the prepare for landing announcement over xxxxx so these flight attendants that have been flying this trip for 10 and maybe 15 yrs know that they have a lot more time than 5 mins to prepare the cabin. The time might be more like 15 mins from xxxxx to landing on runway xl. Since ZZZZ has allowed a faster routing to approach on runway xl the flight attendants are getting caught off guard with the time that is lost with the short approach and have lost their situational awareness and other cues in knowing what phase the aircraft is in during approach. It might be a good idea for the captain to brief the purser about the recent change at ZZZZ that allows us for a short approach and remind them that it is imperative that when the prepare for landing announcement is made it is time to stop all conversations and get to work preparing the cabin for landing as efficiently as possible. If they have not heard the announcement and they hear the flaps coming out or the gear coming down they may want to initiate preparing the cabin on their own or assess where the aircraft is and get to their seats or call the cockpit to let them know the cabin is not ready for landing. Supplemental information from acn 815195: several flight attendants were not seated during landing at ZZZZ. Our approach into ZZZZ included the arrival with short vectors to final for runway xl. All normal pre-arrival announcements were made and I made the announcement 'flight attendants prepare for landing' prior to 5 mins before landing; per SOP. After block in; flight attendants advised that several flight attendants were not seated for landing due to not having sufficient time to accomplish checks after prepare for landing announcement was given. Supplemental information from acn 815069: cockpit did not allow adequate time for the flight attendants to do their preparation for landing duties and return to their assigned jumpseats. I was flight attendant #3 on the B747 ob aircraft assigned jumpseat 3R outboard. On approach into ZZZZ. The cockpit advised the 'flight attendant prepare for landing.' I immediately helped to secure the main deck galley then locked the lavatories at door 3R and did my final cabin preparation from row 32-44R. By the time I got to door 4R; I felt a big thump. It was then when I noticed that we had just landed into ZZZZ. I immediately sat down at 4R jumpseat as it was unoccupied together with another flight attendant who also just completed their safety checks. I then looked up and saw that most of the flight attendant jumpseats were unoccupied. When the aircraft was at a slow taxi I then returned back to my assigned jumpseat.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A B747-400 CREW DESCRIBES THE EVENTS LEADING UP TO A FOREIGN AIRPORT LANDING WITH ALL OF THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS STANDING AFTER THE PILOT LANDING ANNOUNCEMENT FIVE MINUTES PRIOR.

Narrative: THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF THE RPT FILED A FEW DAYS AGO. AFTER LISTENING TO NUMEROUS FLT ATTENDANTS DEPLANING THE ACFT AND STATING THEY DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO SIT DOWN BEFORE LNDG; I BEGAN TO THINK ABOUT WHY THEY WOULD NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME. THE FOM STATES TO MAKE A PREPARE TO LAND ANNOUNCEMENT AT LEAST 5 MINS PRIOR TO LNDG. AS ONE OF THE FLT ATTENDANTS DEPLANED AND COMPLAINED ABOUT NOT HAVING ENOUGH TIME I ASKED HER IF SHE HEARD THE PREPARE TO LAND ANNOUNCEMENT. SHE RESPONDED THAT SHE DID HEAR IT BUT IT WAS NOT ENOUGH TIME. I RESPONDED THAT IT WAS AT LEAST 6-7 MINS AND THAT OUR FOM STATES A MINIMUM OF 5 MINS PRIOR TO LNDG. SHE STILL RESPONDED THAT IT WAS NOT ENOUGH TIME SO I DECIDED TO JUST DROP THE SUBJECT FOR NOW. AS WE BOARDED THE BUS; THE CAPT GOT EVERYONE'S ATTN AND WANTED TO DEBRIEF THE WHOLE CREW. HE WAS VERY INTENT ON TELLING THE FLT ATTENDANTS THAT WE DO NOT TAKE THE INJURY OF A FLT ATTENDANT LIGHTLY AND THAT HE WAS CONCERNED WHY THEY WERE STANDING WHEN WE LANDED. HE ASKED; 'WHY DIDN'T ANYONE CALL THE COCKPIT TO LET US KNOW.' ONE OF THE FLT ATTENDANTS RESPONDED THAT WE CANNOT CALL THE COCKPIT. SO; I THOUGHT TO MYSELF OK WHY WOULD YOU NOT CALL THE COCKPIT FOR A SAFETY OF FLT ISSUE ESPECIALLY DEALING WITH FLT ATTENDANTS STILL STANDING? IS IT BECAUSE WE ARE BELOW 18000 FT IS IT BECAUSE WE ARE ON APCH; WHAT ISSUE WOULD IT TAKE FOR A FLT ATTENDANT TO GIVE US A CALL ON APCH? I WOULD WANT AND EXPECT A CALL IF THE FLT ATTENDANTS ARE STILL PREPARING THE CABIN FOR LNDG. THE CAPT WENT ON TO SAY THAT YES WE NEED TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT READY FOR LNDG. ONE OF THE FLT ATTENDANTS SAID WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF WE DID CALL AND THE CAPT RESPONDED WE WOULD GO AROUND. ONE OF THE FLT ATTENDANTS THEN SAID WELL WE DON'T WANT YOU TO GO AROUND BECAUSE YOU MIGHT BE LOW ON FUEL. THE CAPT RESPONDED THAT IS NOT YOUR DECISION OR YOUR ISSUE. I FIND IT DISRESPECTFUL AND VERY CONCEITED FOR A FLT ATTENDANT TO START SECOND-GUESSING THE DECISIONS OF THE FLT CREW CALLING US ABOUT A SAFETY OF FLT ISSUE DUE TO HER CONCERN OF FUEL. I WOULD SAY THAT HER PRIORITIES ARE NOT WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. THE CAPT THEN ASKED THE FLT ATTENDANTS; 'WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF WE DID NOT MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT?' HE WENT ON TO SAY; 'DID YOU LISTEN TO MY GOODBYE MESSAGE TO THE PAX WHEN I STATED THE UPDATED TIME?' NO ONE ANSWERED YES AND THE PURSER STATED THE LAST TIME I KNEW WE WERE LNDG WAS SUCH AND SUCH TIME. THE CAPT THEN ASKED CAN'T YOU LOOK OUT THE WINDOW AND SEE WHERE WE ARE. ONE OF THE FLT ATTENDANTS STATED THAT WE CANNOT ASK THE PAX TO OPEN THEIR WINDOW SHADES. ANOTHER STATED THAT IT WAS DARK OUT AND WE CANNOT TELL WHERE WE ARE. THE CAPT ASKED IF ANYONE HEARD THE GEAR GO DOWN OR THE FLAPS EXTEND OUT. ONE OF THE FLT ATTENDANTS ON THE UPPER DECK SAID SHE COULD NOT HEAR THE GEAR GO DOWN BECAUSE SHE WAS ON THE UPPER DECK. OTHER FLT ATTENDANTS SAID THEY WERE ON THE MAIN DECK AND SAID THEY COULD NOT HEAR THE GEAR COME DOWN. AT THIS POINT I HAD HEARD ENOUGH TO WONDER WHAT IF WE HAD A REAL EMER IN THE BACK; WHAT KIND OF INFO WOULD I RECEIVE AND HOW WOULD THIS FLT ATTENDANT CREW HANDLE AN EMER. WOULD THEY EVEN LET ME KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING UNTIL WE WERE AT THE GATE AND WOULD THE INFO BE RELIABLE. NOW TO ADDRESS THE PLT ISSUES. THIS WAS MY FIRST TRIP AFTER IOE AND ONLY 3RD TIME INTO ZZZZ; THIS TIME GOING IN AS THE SECONDARY RELIEF PLT. AS I LISTENED TO OUR CAPT DEBRIEF US AFTER THE BUS TRIP HE MENTIONED; 'WHY COULDN'T THE FLT ATTENDANTS HAVE THE CABIN PREPARED FOR LNDG? WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE DIFFERENT TO PREVENT THIS SITUATION ?' WE TALKED ABOUT A FEW DIFFERENT IDEAS BUT THE ONE THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE IS THAT MOST CREWS PROBABLY MAKE THE PREPARE FOR LNDG ANNOUNCEMENT OVER XXXXX SO THESE FLT ATTENDANTS THAT HAVE BEEN FLYING THIS TRIP FOR 10 AND MAYBE 15 YRS KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A LOT MORE TIME THAN 5 MINS TO PREPARE THE CABIN. THE TIME MIGHT BE MORE LIKE 15 MINS FROM XXXXX TO LNDG ON RWY XL. SINCE ZZZZ HAS ALLOWED A FASTER ROUTING TO APCH ON RWY XL THE FLT ATTENDANTS ARE GETTING CAUGHT OFF GUARD WITH THE TIME THAT IS LOST WITH THE SHORT APCH AND HAVE LOST THEIR SITUATIONAL AWARENESS AND OTHER CUES IN KNOWING WHAT PHASE THE ACFT IS IN DURING APCH. IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA FOR THE CAPT TO BRIEF THE PURSER ABOUT THE RECENT CHANGE AT ZZZZ THAT ALLOWS US FOR A SHORT APCH AND REMIND THEM THAT IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WHEN THE PREPARE FOR LNDG ANNOUNCEMENT IS MADE IT IS TIME TO STOP ALL CONVERSATIONS AND GET TO WORK PREPARING THE CABIN FOR LNDG AS EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE. IF THEY HAVE NOT HEARD THE ANNOUNCEMENT AND THEY HEAR THE FLAPS COMING OUT OR THE GEAR COMING DOWN THEY MAY WANT TO INITIATE PREPARING THE CABIN ON THEIR OWN OR ASSESS WHERE THE ACFT IS AND GET TO THEIR SEATS OR CALL THE COCKPIT TO LET THEM KNOW THE CABIN IS NOT READY FOR LNDG. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 815195: SEVERAL FLT ATTENDANTS WERE NOT SEATED DURING LNDG AT ZZZZ. OUR APCH INTO ZZZZ INCLUDED THE ARR WITH SHORT VECTORS TO FINAL FOR RWY XL. ALL NORMAL PRE-ARR ANNOUNCEMENTS WERE MADE AND I MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT 'FLT ATTENDANTS PREPARE FOR LNDG' PRIOR TO 5 MINS BEFORE LNDG; PER SOP. AFTER BLOCK IN; FLT ATTENDANTS ADVISED THAT SEVERAL FLT ATTENDANTS WERE NOT SEATED FOR LNDG DUE TO NOT HAVING SUFFICIENT TIME TO ACCOMPLISH CHKS AFTER PREPARE FOR LNDG ANNOUNCEMENT WAS GIVEN. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 815069: COCKPIT DID NOT ALLOW ADEQUATE TIME FOR THE FLT ATTENDANTS TO DO THEIR PREPARATION FOR LNDG DUTIES AND RETURN TO THEIR ASSIGNED JUMPSEATS. I WAS FLT ATTENDANT #3 ON THE B747 OB ACFT ASSIGNED JUMPSEAT 3R OUTBOARD. ON APCH INTO ZZZZ. THE COCKPIT ADVISED THE 'FLT ATTENDANT PREPARE FOR LNDG.' I IMMEDIATELY HELPED TO SECURE THE MAIN DECK GALLEY THEN LOCKED THE LAVATORIES AT DOOR 3R AND DID MY FINAL CABIN PREPARATION FROM ROW 32-44R. BY THE TIME I GOT TO DOOR 4R; I FELT A BIG THUMP. IT WAS THEN WHEN I NOTICED THAT WE HAD JUST LANDED INTO ZZZZ. I IMMEDIATELY SAT DOWN AT 4R JUMPSEAT AS IT WAS UNOCCUPIED TOGETHER WITH ANOTHER FLT ATTENDANT WHO ALSO JUST COMPLETED THEIR SAFETY CHKS. I THEN LOOKED UP AND SAW THAT MOST OF THE FLT ATTENDANT JUMPSEATS WERE UNOCCUPIED. WHEN THE ACFT WAS AT A SLOW TAXI I THEN RETURNED BACK TO MY ASSIGNED JUMPSEAT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.