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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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Attributes | |
ACN | 86059 |
Time | |
Date | 198804 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : ord |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 10000 msl bound upper : 10300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zau |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | cruise other other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent other other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 1300 |
ASRS Report | 86059 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 1300 |
ASRS Report | 86258 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course none taken : detected after the fact other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 15000 vertical : 300 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
I had just entered holding at 10000' MSL and had turned outbnd. First officer reported entering hold to center. We were low and out of the tops of the overcast. While still in the turn, we came out of the clouds just long enough to see another aircraft ahead 2-3 mi and only slightly higher than our altitude. The first officer called the center controller and asked about the traffic at 12 O'clock. After several radio calls between the center and the other aircraft, it was clear that he had been issued clearance to 11000', read back 10000', and the busy controller missed the read back error. The other aircraft was no lower than 10300' when he began his climb back to 11000'. Shortly after, we changed to approach control frequency west/O further problem. Supplemental information from acn 86258: we entered holding at farmm (captain flying), 10000' MSL outbnd. We were in and out of the tops of the overcast. The captain saw another medium large transport slightly higher and descending about 2-3 mi ahead. I called center and asked about the traffic at 12 O'clock. After several radio calls it became apparent they were supposed to be at 11000' MSL. They insisted they read back 10000' MSL. Who missed what radio call is anybody's guess. They were never closer than 300' and 2 mi. Supplemental information from acn 85911: flying to farmm intersection from the northwest, we understood ATC cleared us from 13000 to 10000'. We read back leveling 13000' for 11000'. We were cleared to farmm intersection to hold. Descending in the holding pattern, ATC asked our altitude. I read back leveling 10400' for 10000'. She said we were cleared to 10000'. We immediately climbed back to 11000'. There were no other incidents. The controller was busy and we (controllers and crews) need to be more alert for instructions and replies to instructions.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MLG X, AFTER ENTERING HOLDING AT FARMM INTERSECTION AT 10000', SAW MLG Y ALSO IN HOLDING APPROX 300' ABOVE AND 2 PT 5 MILES AWAY. ARTCC INSTRUCTED MLG Y TO RETURN TO 11000'.
Narrative: I HAD JUST ENTERED HOLDING AT 10000' MSL AND HAD TURNED OUTBND. F/O RPTED ENTERING HOLD TO CENTER. WE WERE LOW AND OUT OF THE TOPS OF THE OVCST. WHILE STILL IN THE TURN, WE CAME OUT OF THE CLOUDS JUST LONG ENOUGH TO SEE ANOTHER ACFT AHEAD 2-3 MI AND ONLY SLIGHTLY HIGHER THAN OUR ALT. THE F/O CALLED THE CENTER CTLR AND ASKED ABOUT THE TFC AT 12 O'CLOCK. AFTER SEVERAL RADIO CALLS BTWN THE CENTER AND THE OTHER ACFT, IT WAS CLR THAT HE HAD BEEN ISSUED CLRNC TO 11000', READ BACK 10000', AND THE BUSY CTLR MISSED THE READ BACK ERROR. THE OTHER ACFT WAS NO LOWER THAN 10300' WHEN HE BEGAN HIS CLB BACK TO 11000'. SHORTLY AFTER, WE CHANGED TO APCH CTL FREQ W/O FURTHER PROB. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 86258: WE ENTERED HOLDING AT FARMM (CAPT FLYING), 10000' MSL OUTBND. WE WERE IN AND OUT OF THE TOPS OF THE OVCST. THE CAPT SAW ANOTHER MLG SLIGHTLY HIGHER AND DSNDING ABOUT 2-3 MI AHEAD. I CALLED CENTER AND ASKED ABOUT THE TFC AT 12 O'CLOCK. AFTER SEVERAL RADIO CALLS IT BECAME APPARENT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE AT 11000' MSL. THEY INSISTED THEY READ BACK 10000' MSL. WHO MISSED WHAT RADIO CALL IS ANYBODY'S GUESS. THEY WERE NEVER CLOSER THAN 300' AND 2 MI. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 85911: FLYING TO FARMM INTXN FROM THE NW, WE UNDERSTOOD ATC CLRED US FROM 13000 TO 10000'. WE READ BACK LEVELING 13000' FOR 11000'. WE WERE CLRED TO FARMM INTXN TO HOLD. DSNDING IN THE HOLDING PATTERN, ATC ASKED OUR ALT. I READ BACK LEVELING 10400' FOR 10000'. SHE SAID WE WERE CLRED TO 10000'. WE IMMEDIATELY CLBED BACK TO 11000'. THERE WERE NO OTHER INCIDENTS. THE CTLR WAS BUSY AND WE (CTLRS AND CREWS) NEED TO BE MORE ALERT FOR INSTRUCTIONS AND REPLIES TO INSTRUCTIONS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.