Narrative:

Our fom states that the cfp (computer flight plan) will be planned with a cushion of 2;000 kgs for a 767. Our flight did not have that cushion. The problem becomes that that cushion often allows for the uld (unit load device) units in the belly of the aircraft. Nowhere in our procedures do we account for the uld units when planning a fight; so we end up with this extra 1;210 kgs that we don't account for when we do the weight and balance. Here is my example of what happened in this event. The planned bow from the cfp was 91.2; our actual was 90.9; that is only an extra 300 kgs. If that is going to be done; the flight crew should be made aware in the remarks section of the cfp. The ground handler asked 30 minutes before departure if he could add 10 more passengers; we checked the weight; and with the 10 extra passengers; we were still below the acl of 80;000 pounds; so we said go ahead. When we got the final paperwork; we were over our ZFW on the cfp by 1;000; (due to the uld's). We were on a reclear/ETOPS flight; so we couldn't go. Now we had to call dispatch and get a new cfp. Luckily; we didn't have to add any fuel; because at this station; we would have had to deplane to do that; and we could have had a duty time issue. My point here is; there are many 'traps' on this event. 1. Nowhere on the cfp are the uld's accounted for; unless the dispatcher keeps the 2;000 KG 'cushion'. I suspect the cushion was eliminated for fuel conservation reasons; but again; we were not notified of this. The uld's are not included in the bow (on either the cfp or the weight and balance form). 2. Another trap was the cfp was planned with the actual payload; not the acl; so we were not aware that that had been done. Again; if this is to be done; why are we not notified on the remarks section that this is what dispatch is doing. This flight was being done at 5am; after already flying one leg; and showing before midnight at the originating station. It is very difficult to keep going back and forth between kgs; and pounds; why can't we get the acl in kgs. On the cam; it is provided in pounds. Everything else we do is done in kilos. So dispatch decided to plan this with the actual bow; and actual payload; eliminating any cushion we thought we had; once again; without telling us that is what they did. Due to this flight being a ETOPS and reclear; we exceeded our center; which then required a new cfp. Not what you need when it is already after scheduled departure time. 3. Once again; I have never been trained; or more accurately; been made aware of the fact that we need to account for the uld's when we are trying to do this. This is the second; if not third time in the last 6 months; where the uld's have caused us to go over our center; on an ETOPS flight; and necessitated a new cfp. And they were all very tight flights; where dispatch went with minimum numbers; and the uld's caused us to go over the ZFW. We do not need this stress at departure time.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B767 Captain laments his company's practice of not including cargo container weights in the BOW of the aircraft or on the cargo manifest. Working with both pounds and kilograms is also an issue.

Narrative: Our FOM states that the CFP (Computer Flight Plan) will be planned with a cushion of 2;000 KGS for a 767. Our flight did not have that cushion. The problem becomes that that cushion often allows for the ULD (Unit Load Device) units in the belly of the aircraft. Nowhere in our procedures do we account for the ULD units when planning a fight; so we end up with this extra 1;210 KGS that we don't account for when we do the weight and balance. Here is my example of what happened in this event. The planned BOW from the CFP was 91.2; our actual was 90.9; that is only an extra 300 KGS. If that is going to be done; the Flight crew should be made aware in the remarks section of the CFP. The ground handler asked 30 minutes before departure if he could add 10 more passengers; we checked the weight; and with the 10 extra passengers; we were still below the ACL of 80;000 LBS; so we said go ahead. When we got the final paperwork; we were over our ZFW on the CFP by 1;000; (due to the ULD's). We were on a reclear/ETOPS flight; so we couldn't go. Now we had to call dispatch and get a new CFP. Luckily; we didn't have to add any fuel; because at this station; we would have had to deplane to do that; and we could have had a duty time issue. My point here is; there are many 'traps' on this event. 1. Nowhere on the CFP are the ULD's accounted for; unless the Dispatcher keeps the 2;000 KG 'cushion'. I suspect the cushion was eliminated for fuel conservation reasons; but again; we were NOT notified of this. The ULD's are not included in the BOW (on either the CFP or the weight and balance form). 2. Another trap was the CFP was planned with the actual payload; not the ACL; so we were not aware that that had been done. Again; if this is to be done; why are we not notified on the remarks section that this is what Dispatch is doing. This flight was being done at 5am; after already flying one leg; and showing before midnight at the originating station. It is very difficult to keep going back and forth between KGS; and LBS; why can't we get the ACL in KGS. On the CAM; it is provided in pounds. Everything else we do is done in Kilos. So dispatch decided to plan this with the actual BOW; and actual payload; eliminating any cushion we thought we had; once again; without telling us that is what they did. Due to this flight being a ETOPS and reclear; we exceeded our center; which then required a new CFP. Not what you need when it is already after scheduled departure time. 3. Once again; I have never been trained; or more accurately; been made aware of the fact that we need to account for the ULD's when we are trying to do this. This is the second; if not third time in the last 6 months; where the ULD's have caused us to go over our center; on an ETOPS flight; and necessitated a new CFP. And they were all very tight flights; where dispatch went with minimum numbers; and the ULD's caused us to go over the ZFW. We do not need this stress at departure time.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.