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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 89875 |
Time | |
Date | 198806 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : lga airport : n90 |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 163 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 89875 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 17600 flight time type : 1600 |
ASRS Report | 89877 |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
On approach to lga, ATIS was giving VOR 'C' to runway 22 and we set up accordingly. Approaching ny harbor we were advised runway 13 was available. We replied that would be acceptable and were given a heading and told to maintain 3000' and to report the statue in sight. I replied we had the statue and river in sight. Approach then clrd us direct to the statue and cleared us for a river visual approach to runway 13 to maintain 2000' until north of central park. We read back the clearance and descended to 2000' which concurred with the only altitude given on commercial plate 19-2 for the river visual approach to runway 13. Approach then queried our altitude and said we should be at 3000'. We climbed back to 3000'. The river visual approach plate does not depict a 3000' limitation. If ATC requires an altitude to a certain position it should be on the approach and defined by a radial off lga. Clearance for an approach includes clearance to the next altitude once established on course. In this instance, established on the hudson river the plate says 'maintain 2000' or above as long as possible.' the approach plate is ambiguous and should be redesigned to satisfy any altitude and geographical requirements of ATC with reference to navigation aids and radials to eliminate confusion. Since there was no traffic reported or sighted by us no evasive actions were required. However, by having to maintain 3000' instead of 2000' as depicted on the approach plate, an uncomfortably steep approach was required to land. These ambiguities should be eliminated by redesigning the approach plate to reflect any ATC requirements in definitive terms.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR WDB DESCENDED TO NEXT ALT AFTER RECEIVING VISUAL APCH CLRNC. APCH CTL INSTRUCTED THEM TO MAINTAIN THE HIGHER ALT.
Narrative: ON APCH TO LGA, ATIS WAS GIVING VOR 'C' TO RWY 22 AND WE SET UP ACCORDINGLY. APCHING NY HARBOR WE WERE ADVISED RWY 13 WAS AVAILABLE. WE REPLIED THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE AND WERE GIVEN A HDG AND TOLD TO MAINTAIN 3000' AND TO RPT THE STATUE IN SIGHT. I REPLIED WE HAD THE STATUE AND RIVER IN SIGHT. APCH THEN CLRD US DIRECT TO THE STATUE AND CLRED US FOR A RIVER VISUAL APCH TO RWY 13 TO MAINTAIN 2000' UNTIL NORTH OF CENTRAL PARK. WE READ BACK THE CLRNC AND DSNDED TO 2000' WHICH CONCURRED WITH THE ONLY ALT GIVEN ON COMMERCIAL PLATE 19-2 FOR THE RIVER VISUAL APCH TO RWY 13. APCH THEN QUERIED OUR ALT AND SAID WE SHOULD BE AT 3000'. WE CLBED BACK TO 3000'. THE RIVER VISUAL APCH PLATE DOES NOT DEPICT A 3000' LIMITATION. IF ATC REQUIRES AN ALT TO A CERTAIN POS IT SHOULD BE ON THE APCH AND DEFINED BY A RADIAL OFF LGA. CLRNC FOR AN APCH INCLUDES CLRNC TO THE NEXT ALT ONCE ESTABLISHED ON COURSE. IN THIS INSTANCE, ESTABLISHED ON THE HUDSON RIVER THE PLATE SAYS 'MAINTAIN 2000' OR ABOVE AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.' THE APCH PLATE IS AMBIGUOUS AND SHOULD BE REDESIGNED TO SATISFY ANY ALT AND GEOGRAPHICAL REQUIREMENTS OF ATC WITH REFERENCE TO NAV AIDS AND RADIALS TO ELIMINATE CONFUSION. SINCE THERE WAS NO TFC RPTED OR SIGHTED BY US NO EVASIVE ACTIONS WERE REQUIRED. HOWEVER, BY HAVING TO MAINTAIN 3000' INSTEAD OF 2000' AS DEPICTED ON THE APCH PLATE, AN UNCOMFORTABLY STEEP APCH WAS REQUIRED TO LAND. THESE AMBIGUITIES SHOULD BE ELIMINATED BY REDESIGNING THE APCH PLATE TO REFLECT ANY ATC REQUIREMENTS IN DEFINITIVE TERMS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.