37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 921751 |
Time | |
Date | 201012 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201-1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | ZBW.ARTCC |
State Reference | NH |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Cessna Citation Sovereign (C680) |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | Descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Pilot Not Flying First Officer |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Events | |
Anomaly | ATC Issue All Types Deviation - Procedural Clearance Deviation - Procedural Published Material / Policy Deviation - Track / Heading All Types |
Narrative:
Original flight started out to teb. We monitored the weather at teb the entire way and over ohio decided the winds were not letting up (150/28g44;over the C-680 crosswind limit) so we contacted dispatch to work out a plan. Ttn was our alternate but that had also gone below minimums. We decided to make a destination change to hpn with bdl as our alternate. We were then given direct to ith; direct dny then the valerie 2 arrival to hpn. Just prior to dny; I think we were talking to boston; they gave us 250 KTS; descend to 17;000 ft and a radar vector to the north for spacing. While turning us back to the south; the controller came on and said cleared direct rockdale; hold north as published; efc? Since rockdale was not on our route and not on the arrival I asked for the identifier. He gave me rka. Looking at the mfd I noticed that we were right on top of the VOR. I asked the captain to a tell ATC we need a vector to get the hold set up. ATC replied maneuver as needed to enter the hold. I grabbed the low chart and began looking for rka while the captain made a right turn to stay in the vicinity of rka. I found rka but there was not a published hold so I asked the controller what the hold was. A supervisor came on and said rka 313 radial; left turns. I programmed the hold and we started the entry. As we were entering the hold the supervisor came back on and asked if our FMS does not give us the published hold when we program a hold. I explained that the honeywell FMS does not give published holds; we were right on top of the VOR and there is a 110 KTS wind. He said I understand but maybe we should have charts out. Nothing else was said about the hold. While in the hold I ended up finding the hold on the high chart; which does not help when your holding at 17;000 ft. Also there are 3 published holds on the arrival that had no airplanes holding that he could have cleared us to to hold. It was a horrible clearance; and there was no time to even come close to making the initial turn. ATC needs to give us a minute; even 30 seconds; if they're going to give us a reroute with a hold; to get things set up.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Corporate jet diverting from the filed destination was given hurried and unexpected holding instructions resulting in ATC questioning the holding entry maneuver; the reporter indicating additional time was needed for aircraft preparation purposes.
Narrative: Original flight started out to TEB. We monitored the weather at TEB the entire way and over Ohio decided the winds were not letting up (150/28G44;over the C-680 crosswind limit) so we contacted Dispatch to work out a plan. TTN was our alternate but that had also gone below minimums. We decided to make a destination change to HPN with BDL as our alternate. We were then given direct to ITH; direct DNY then the Valerie 2 arrival to HPN. Just prior to DNY; I think we were talking to Boston; they gave us 250 KTS; descend to 17;000 FT and a RADAR vector to the north for spacing. While turning us back to the south; the Controller came on and said cleared direct Rockdale; hold north as published; EFC? Since Rockdale was not on our route and not on the arrival I asked for the identifier. He gave me RKA. Looking at the MFD I noticed that we were right on top of the VOR. I asked the Captain to a tell ATC we need a vector to get the hold set up. ATC replied maneuver as needed to enter the hold. I grabbed the low chart and began looking for RKA while the Captain made a right turn to stay in the vicinity of RKA. I found RKA but there was not a published hold so I asked the Controller what the hold was. A Supervisor came on and said RKA 313 radial; left turns. I programmed the hold and we started the entry. As we were entering the hold the Supervisor came back on and asked if our FMS does not give us the published hold when we program a hold. I explained that the Honeywell FMS does not give published holds; we were right on top of the VOR and there is a 110 KTS wind. He said I understand but maybe we should have charts out. Nothing else was said about the hold. While in the hold I ended up finding the hold on the high chart; which does not help when your holding at 17;000 FT. Also there are 3 published holds on the arrival that had no airplanes holding that he could have cleared us to to hold. It was a horrible clearance; and there was no time to even come close to making the initial turn. ATC needs to give us a minute; even 30 seconds; if they're going to give us a reroute with a hold; to get things set up.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.