Narrative:

Inbound from maui (ogg) to lax on sadde four arrival. Given 'plan for visual 25R'. Turned base approximately 10 mi from airport, approach called out traffic, an mdt, going to 25L and told us to maintain visual separation. While on base, approach called out the traffic we were to follow, an large transport, we said we had him in sight. He cleared us for a visual 25R. When we turned final behind the large transport, we were 1-1.5 mi behind it. We slowed as much as we could but were too close and had to execute a missed approach. We were instructed to fly runway heading and maintain 2500'. We did so. We were then turned south and given 5000'. We turned downwind at 5000'. About 10 mi east of lax we were turned base and descended to 4000'. While in the descent we were told to expect a visual to runway 25L. The controller tried to point out our traffic to us but there was no way to be certain which aircraft he meant. He turned us on final and kept trying to point out the traffic. At about 7 mi from the airport the said 'say your altitude, I told you to maintain 4000''. I looked down at the altimeter and we were at 3500'. I started a climb back to 4000', and at that time the captain reported he saw the traffic, but we were only about a mile behind it and that we were in too close. The controller said 'I told you he is going to 25R, you are cleared for a visual 25L', and switched us to tower. Even though we were below the altitude assigned us, we had great difficulty getting down to land. In fact if we had been at our assigned altitude, we would have had to execute another missed due to being too high. This incident occurred due to all three of us in the cockpit looking outside desperately trying to find our traffic (since we had already been once put in an impossible situation which caused us to execute a missed approach). We had been on duty for 13 hours and wanted to get on the ground. We were afraid that if we didn't see this traffic, or if we saw him too late and were too close or too high, we would have to go around again. In trying to find him, we missed the altitude. A contributing factor was lax approach control's habit of always keeping you too high, too fast, too close, and trying to get you out of their hair by getting you to accept a visual, when you can't be certain if you see the traffic they are pointing out.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLT CREW OF WDB MISSED APCH ACCOUNT HIGH, FAST AND TOO CLOSE TO TRAFFIC AHEAD. ON SECOND APCH OVERSHOT ALT IN DESCENT. DISTR TRAFFIC WATCH.

Narrative: INBND FROM MAUI (OGG) TO LAX ON SADDE FOUR ARR. GIVEN 'PLAN FOR VISUAL 25R'. TURNED BASE APPROX 10 MI FROM ARPT, APCH CALLED OUT TFC, AN MDT, GOING TO 25L AND TOLD US TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION. WHILE ON BASE, APCH CALLED OUT THE TFC WE WERE TO FOLLOW, AN LGT, WE SAID WE HAD HIM IN SIGHT. HE CLRED US FOR A VISUAL 25R. WHEN WE TURNED FINAL BEHIND THE LGT, WE WERE 1-1.5 MI BEHIND IT. WE SLOWED AS MUCH AS WE COULD BUT WERE TOO CLOSE AND HAD TO EXECUTE A MISSED APCH. WE WERE INSTRUCTED TO FLY RWY HDG AND MAINTAIN 2500'. WE DID SO. WE WERE THEN TURNED S AND GIVEN 5000'. WE TURNED DOWNWIND AT 5000'. ABOUT 10 MI E OF LAX WE WERE TURNED BASE AND DESCENDED TO 4000'. WHILE IN THE DSCNT WE WERE TOLD TO EXPECT A VISUAL TO RWY 25L. THE CTLR TRIED TO POINT OUT OUR TFC TO US BUT THERE WAS NO WAY TO BE CERTAIN WHICH ACFT HE MEANT. HE TURNED US ON FINAL AND KEPT TRYING TO POINT OUT THE TFC. AT ABOUT 7 MI FROM THE ARPT THE SAID 'SAY YOUR ALT, I TOLD YOU TO MAINTAIN 4000''. I LOOKED DOWN AT THE ALTIMETER AND WE WERE AT 3500'. I STARTED A CLIMB BACK TO 4000', AND AT THAT TIME THE CAPT REPORTED HE SAW THE TFC, BUT WE WERE ONLY ABOUT A MILE BEHIND IT AND THAT WE WERE IN TOO CLOSE. THE CTLR SAID 'I TOLD YOU HE IS GOING TO 25R, YOU ARE CLRED FOR A VISUAL 25L', AND SWITCHED US TO TWR. EVEN THOUGH WE WERE BELOW THE ALT ASSIGNED US, WE HAD GREAT DIFFICULTY GETTING DOWN TO LAND. IN FACT IF WE HAD BEEN AT OUR ASSIGNED ALT, WE WOULD HAVE HAD TO EXECUTE ANOTHER MISSED DUE TO BEING TOO HIGH. THIS INCIDENT OCCURRED DUE TO ALL THREE OF US IN THE COCKPIT LOOKING OUTSIDE DESPERATELY TRYING TO FIND OUR TFC (SINCE WE HAD ALREADY BEEN ONCE PUT IN AN IMPOSSIBLE SITUATION WHICH CAUSED US TO EXECUTE A MISSED APCH). WE HAD BEEN ON DUTY FOR 13 HRS AND WANTED TO GET ON THE GND. WE WERE AFRAID THAT IF WE DIDN'T SEE THIS TFC, OR IF WE SAW HIM TOO LATE AND WERE TOO CLOSE OR TOO HIGH, WE WOULD HAVE TO GO AROUND AGAIN. IN TRYING TO FIND HIM, WE MISSED THE ALT. A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR WAS LAX APCH CTL'S HABIT OF ALWAYS KEEPING YOU TOO HIGH, TOO FAST, TOO CLOSE, AND TRYING TO GET YOU OUT OF THEIR HAIR BY GETTING YOU TO ACCEPT A VISUAL, WHEN YOU CAN'T BE CERTAIN IF YOU SEE THE TFC THEY ARE POINTING OUT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.