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Attributes | |
ACN | 137071 |
Time | |
Date | 199002 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : mrb |
State Reference | WV |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 17000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 137071 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight from sea to iad was routine (except first officer was receiving IOE). Upon transfer from ZOB to ZDC, we were given descent, pilot discretion, from FL410 to FL350. Descent was started 170 NM from iad. Shortly, ZDC turned us about 30 degree left, off the original esl 2 arrival. The controller sounded overloaded. Another flight twice indicated they could not make a crossing restriction. Winds at FL350 were about 250 degree at 140 KT. Suddenly we were cleared direct mgw with a mgw 2 arrival. With a glass cockpit this takes some time. My new first officer asked how to do it. I immediately entered mgw and found we were out of position (too near) to go direct but could intercept the STAR (mgw 2). Then we got crossing restriction #1, a FL270 crossing at liz-10. We made that ok. Then we got a crossing restriction 10 west mrb at 250 KT and 11000'. The wind had dropped to about 250 degree at 70 KT but it would still be tight, lots of talk on the frequency. Too much to ask whether the speed or altitudes was more important. I saw another aircraft in front of us so I decided to slow first. I pulled the speed brake full, slowed to 250 KT and started down. At approximately 15000' a change of controller voice told us to expedite the descent so I pushed the nose over and got about a 4000 FPM descent rate. Of course, the indicated airspeed came up to about 290 KT. About 12000' MSL we were told to contact iad approach. Iad approach control asked us if ARTCC had changed our STAR. ARTCC said nothing about the possible too high on crossing restriction. However, several points here: an apparent ARTCC trainee could not handle the high ground speed. Supervisor waited too long to take over. Apparently ARTCC did not tell iad approach the STAR had been changed. ARTCC controller overload.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLT CREW GIVEN TIGHT GO DOWN SLOW DOWN CLRNC UNABLE TO MAKE CROSSING ALT AND AIRSPEED.
Narrative: FLT FROM SEA TO IAD WAS ROUTINE (EXCEPT F/O WAS RECEIVING IOE). UPON TRANSFER FROM ZOB TO ZDC, WE WERE GIVEN DSCNT, PLT DISCRETION, FROM FL410 TO FL350. DSCNT WAS STARTED 170 NM FROM IAD. SHORTLY, ZDC TURNED US ABOUT 30 DEG LEFT, OFF THE ORIGINAL ESL 2 ARR. THE CTLR SOUNDED OVERLOADED. ANOTHER FLT TWICE INDICATED THEY COULD NOT MAKE A XING RESTRICTION. WINDS AT FL350 WERE ABOUT 250 DEG AT 140 KT. SUDDENLY WE WERE CLRED DIRECT MGW WITH A MGW 2 ARR. WITH A GLASS COCKPIT THIS TAKES SOME TIME. MY NEW F/O ASKED HOW TO DO IT. I IMMEDIATELY ENTERED MGW AND FOUND WE WERE OUT OF POSITION (TOO NEAR) TO GO DIRECT BUT COULD INTERCEPT THE STAR (MGW 2). THEN WE GOT XING RESTRICTION #1, A FL270 XING AT LIZ-10. WE MADE THAT OK. THEN WE GOT A XING RESTRICTION 10 W MRB AT 250 KT AND 11000'. THE WIND HAD DROPPED TO ABOUT 250 DEG AT 70 KT BUT IT WOULD STILL BE TIGHT, LOTS OF TALK ON THE FREQ. TOO MUCH TO ASK WHETHER THE SPEED OR ALTS WAS MORE IMPORTANT. I SAW ANOTHER ACFT IN FRONT OF US SO I DECIDED TO SLOW FIRST. I PULLED THE SPEED BRAKE FULL, SLOWED TO 250 KT AND STARTED DOWN. AT APPROX 15000' A CHANGE OF CTLR VOICE TOLD US TO EXPEDITE THE DSCNT SO I PUSHED THE NOSE OVER AND GOT ABOUT A 4000 FPM DSCNT RATE. OF COURSE, THE INDICATED AIRSPEED CAME UP TO ABOUT 290 KT. ABOUT 12000' MSL WE WERE TOLD TO CONTACT IAD APCH. IAD APCH CTL ASKED US IF ARTCC HAD CHANGED OUR STAR. ARTCC SAID NOTHING ABOUT THE POSSIBLE TOO HIGH ON XING RESTRICTION. HOWEVER, SEVERAL POINTS HERE: AN APPARENT ARTCC TRAINEE COULD NOT HANDLE THE HIGH GND SPEED. SUPVR WAITED TOO LONG TO TAKE OVER. APPARENTLY ARTCC DID NOT TELL IAD APCH THE STAR HAD BEEN CHANGED. ARTCC CTLR OVERLOAD.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.