37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 142751 |
Time | |
Date | 199004 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : bna |
State Reference | TN |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : bna tower : bna tracon : day |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent other other |
Route In Use | approach : visual enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : private pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 5100 flight time type : 1300 |
ASRS Report | 142751 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 142568 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
We were flying into nashville airport descending on downwind. Approach control gave us a turn to base leg and asked if we had airport in sight. We answered yes and were told to follow aircraft ahead. We were very high and close in for a visibility approach. We then fully configured the aircraft and started to make 'south' turns on final. I do not recall if this was stated to bna tower or not. I believe we told them. The captain then realized that the 'south' turns were not sufficient ot get down soon enough. The captain then asked me to request a left 360 degree turn on final (2 mi or less approximately). I asked the tower for this. There was a long pause and no answer from the tower. I asked again and received some kind of affirmative answer. The verbage was a 'yes' or an 'ok'. It was made in a vague and hesitant manner. It was still an affirmative answer and we proceeded with a left 360 degree. Halfway through the turn, tower said turn right 020. I stated to tower that we are already in a left 360 degree. I called back and questioned if he really wanted a 'right' turn to 020. He stated that our 360 degree was not approved and to contact approach. The problem was that approach control turned us onto base leg, too high and too close in for the visibility. The problem was compounded by the tower not responding immediately to our request. I was expecting either a 'negative, go around' answer or 'roger, cleared left 360 degree'. We initially received no answer to which another radio transmission had to be made. We then received what we believed was a clearance for the 360 degree. No warnings or instructions were mentioned until halfway through the turn. Should have been notified earlier had 360 degree not been approved.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR MLG VECTORED TOO CLOSE AND TOO HIGH TO COMPLETE VISUAL APCH TO BNA.
Narrative: WE WERE FLYING INTO NASHVILLE ARPT DSNDING ON DOWNWIND. APCH CTL GAVE US A TURN TO BASE LEG AND ASKED IF WE HAD ARPT IN SIGHT. WE ANSWERED YES AND WERE TOLD TO FOLLOW ACFT AHEAD. WE WERE VERY HIGH AND CLOSE IN FOR A VIS APCH. WE THEN FULLY CONFIGURED THE ACFT AND STARTED TO MAKE 'S' TURNS ON FINAL. I DO NOT RECALL IF THIS WAS STATED TO BNA TWR OR NOT. I BELIEVE WE TOLD THEM. THE CAPT THEN REALIZED THAT THE 'S' TURNS WERE NOT SUFFICIENT OT GET DOWN SOON ENOUGH. THE CAPT THEN ASKED ME TO REQUEST A L 360 DEG TURN ON FINAL (2 MI OR LESS APPROX). I ASKED THE TWR FOR THIS. THERE WAS A LONG PAUSE AND NO ANSWER FROM THE TWR. I ASKED AGAIN AND RECEIVED SOME KIND OF AFFIRMATIVE ANSWER. THE VERBAGE WAS A 'YES' OR AN 'OK'. IT WAS MADE IN A VAGUE AND HESITANT MANNER. IT WAS STILL AN AFFIRMATIVE ANSWER AND WE PROCEEDED WITH A L 360 DEG. HALFWAY THROUGH THE TURN, TWR SAID TURN R 020. I STATED TO TWR THAT WE ARE ALREADY IN A L 360 DEG. I CALLED BACK AND QUESTIONED IF HE REALLY WANTED A 'R' TURN TO 020. HE STATED THAT OUR 360 DEG WAS NOT APPROVED AND TO CONTACT APCH. THE PROB WAS THAT APCH CTL TURNED US ONTO BASE LEG, TOO HIGH AND TOO CLOSE IN FOR THE VIS. THE PROB WAS COMPOUNDED BY THE TWR NOT RESPONDING IMMEDIATELY TO OUR REQUEST. I WAS EXPECTING EITHER A 'NEGATIVE, GO AROUND' ANSWER OR 'ROGER, CLRED L 360 DEG'. WE INITIALLY RECEIVED NO ANSWER TO WHICH ANOTHER RADIO XMISSION HAD TO BE MADE. WE THEN RECEIVED WHAT WE BELIEVED WAS A CLRNC FOR THE 360 DEG. NO WARNINGS OR INSTRUCTIONS WERE MENTIONED UNTIL HALFWAY THROUGH THE TURN. SHOULD HAVE BEEN NOTIFIED EARLIER HAD 360 DEG NOT BEEN APPROVED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.