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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 163968 |
Time | |
Date | 199011 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : slc |
State Reference | UT |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5300 msl bound upper : 6000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : slc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | approach : visual enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 170 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 163968 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
On 340 degree heading downwind for runway 16R, slc approach control requested acknowledgements of traffic at 1-2 O'clock. Then 2-3 O'clock (heavy transport jet on approach to 16R). We did, but advised it was going behind us. Approach turned us to 060 degrees at 6000' and 160 KTS. We were high and close for 16R. Approach called traffic at 11 O'clock on approach to 16L. First officer replied he saw something there, and approach said to maintain visibility sep on the aircraft. I disengaged autoplt to maintain aircraft visually and called for gear down and flaps. First officer asked approach how far we were behind our traffic to 16R and approach advised 1 1/2 mi. Under instruction to maintain visibility sep, we turned right and descended. At approximately 5300' MSL and 180 degree heading (to get back to 16R from approach control's overshoot), approach control said we were supposed to be at 6000' on a heading (which would have put us in path of aircraft approaching 16L, then the wasatch mountains), asked if we wanted to go around (we did not and could have landed ok at this point), then immediately told us to turn to 270 degrees and maintain 65000'. Approach control handling was poor. The unrequested go around was unnecessary (and this crew believes likely spiteful due to our not unconditionally acknowledging traffic initially so approach control could turn us loose for a visibility while on downwind). Merely acknowledging seeing another aircraft should not allow approach control assign you a visibility approach, especially at night, west/O the runway in sight (as on downwind). Approach control should be required to ask if you will or can accept a visibility prior to having the runway in sight, or if you will be able to maintain a visibility on an aircraft to be followed. Slc approach tends to cut you loose, ready or not, west/O a care as to large overtaking speed, or direction of other aircraft relative to yours.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR WDB ALT DEVIATION EXCURSION FROM CLRNC ALT AND TRACK HEADING DEVIATION WHILE BEING VECTORED FOR A VISUAL APCH TO SLC.
Narrative: ON 340 DEG HDG DOWNWIND FOR RWY 16R, SLC APCH CTL REQUESTED ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS OF TFC AT 1-2 O'CLOCK. THEN 2-3 O'CLOCK (HVT JET ON APCH TO 16R). WE DID, BUT ADVISED IT WAS GOING BEHIND US. APCH TURNED US TO 060 DEGS AT 6000' AND 160 KTS. WE WERE HIGH AND CLOSE FOR 16R. APCH CALLED TFC AT 11 O'CLOCK ON APCH TO 16L. F/O REPLIED HE SAW SOMETHING THERE, AND APCH SAID TO MAINTAIN VIS SEP ON THE ACFT. I DISENGAGED AUTOPLT TO MAINTAIN ACFT VISUALLY AND CALLED FOR GEAR DOWN AND FLAPS. F/O ASKED APCH HOW FAR WE WERE BEHIND OUR TFC TO 16R AND APCH ADVISED 1 1/2 MI. UNDER INSTRUCTION TO MAINTAIN VIS SEP, WE TURNED RIGHT AND DSNDED. AT APPROX 5300' MSL AND 180 DEG HDG (TO GET BACK TO 16R FROM APCH CTL'S OVERSHOOT), APCH CTL SAID WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE AT 6000' ON A HDG (WHICH WOULD HAVE PUT US IN PATH OF ACFT APCHING 16L, THEN THE WASATCH MOUNTAINS), ASKED IF WE WANTED TO GO AROUND (WE DID NOT AND COULD HAVE LANDED OK AT THIS POINT), THEN IMMEDIATELY TOLD US TO TURN TO 270 DEGS AND MAINTAIN 65000'. APCH CTL HANDLING WAS POOR. THE UNREQUESTED GAR WAS UNNECESSARY (AND THIS CREW BELIEVES LIKELY SPITEFUL DUE TO OUR NOT UNCONDITIONALLY ACKNOWLEDGING TFC INITIALLY SO APCH CTL COULD TURN US LOOSE FOR A VIS WHILE ON DOWNWIND). MERELY ACKNOWLEDGING SEEING ANOTHER ACFT SHOULD NOT ALLOW APCH CTL ASSIGN YOU A VIS APCH, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT, W/O THE RWY IN SIGHT (AS ON DOWNWIND). APCH CTL SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO ASK IF YOU WILL OR CAN ACCEPT A VIS PRIOR TO HAVING THE RWY IN SIGHT, OR IF YOU WILL BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN A VIS ON AN ACFT TO BE FOLLOWED. SLC APCH TENDS TO CUT YOU LOOSE, READY OR NOT, W/O A CARE AS TO LARGE OVERTAKING SPD, OR DIRECTION OF OTHER ACFT RELATIVE TO YOURS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.