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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 182985 |
Time | |
Date | 199107 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent : approach landing : go around |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 154 flight time total : 14948 flight time type : 1183 |
ASRS Report | 182985 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
After having been cleared for the civet two profile descent and then the ILS 25L approach at fuelr, we were given heading of 190 degree then 310 degree to increase spacing behind a heavy air carrier widebody transport. I disconnected the autoplt to expedite these turns. We were then cleared to rejoin the 25L ILS approach. As we reached 2000 ft MSL on our approach descent, we were told to maintain 2000 ft and fly the localizer, with no further instructions. At this time, we were going well above the GS, so, we inquired if we were to execute a missed approach. We were cleared to maintain 2000 ft and runway heading and to expect vectors for the north complex. We brought the gear and flaps up and re-engaged the autoplt. We then were given a heading of 000 degrees, maintain 5000 ft. I instructed the first officer to contact the company after I gave a brief PA explaining our go around and revised ETA. When I returned the hand microphone to its holder, I inadvertently and unknowingly wedged it against the sidewall with the button depressed. While I monitored ATC, the first officer contacted the company and then started reprogramming the FMC for the runway 24R approach. After a few mins, I realized that we had not received a further clearance from ATC, than our north heading, and that we had a radio problem. I informed the first officer of this and we started trouble shooting, eventually discovering the misplaced microphone. We re-established communications with ATC and were vectored back to an automatic landing on 24R, with no further problems. Lax approach control contributed to the above situation by not giving us timely speed reductions to follow the heavy widebody transport, and thus requiring us to be vectored off course just outside the OM and then by not giving us an expected further clearance after our level off at 2000 ft near the OM on our initial approach to 25L, when it was obvious to them that we were still too close in sep to both make safe lndgs. Lax approach control often expects us to maintain airspeed (200 KTS or more) until 10 mi out, then expects us to slow and descend rapidly to fit into their traffic pattern. This situation often results in an unstable approach until very short final, especially with 2 engine, large transport aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR PIC COMPLAINS OF APCH PROC INTO LAX ARPT AS HIS ACFT EXECUTES A GAR DUE TO TFC SPACING CTL PROBLEM.
Narrative: AFTER HAVING BEEN CLRED FOR THE CIVET TWO PROFILE DSCNT AND THEN THE ILS 25L APCH AT FUELR, WE WERE GIVEN HDG OF 190 DEG THEN 310 DEG TO INCREASE SPACING BEHIND A HVY ACR WDB. I DISCONNECTED THE AUTOPLT TO EXPEDITE THESE TURNS. WE WERE THEN CLRED TO REJOIN THE 25L ILS APCH. AS WE REACHED 2000 FT MSL ON OUR APCH DSCNT, WE WERE TOLD TO MAINTAIN 2000 FT AND FLY THE LOC, WITH NO FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS. AT THIS TIME, WE WERE GOING WELL ABOVE THE GS, SO, WE INQUIRED IF WE WERE TO EXECUTE A MISSED APCH. WE WERE CLRED TO MAINTAIN 2000 FT AND RWY HDG AND TO EXPECT VECTORS FOR THE N COMPLEX. WE BROUGHT THE GEAR AND FLAPS UP AND RE-ENGAGED THE AUTOPLT. WE THEN WERE GIVEN A HDG OF 000 DEGS, MAINTAIN 5000 FT. I INSTRUCTED THE FO TO CONTACT THE COMPANY AFTER I GAVE A BRIEF PA EXPLAINING OUR GAR AND REVISED ETA. WHEN I RETURNED THE HAND MIC TO ITS HOLDER, I INADVERTENTLY AND UNKNOWINGLY WEDGED IT AGAINST THE SIDEWALL WITH THE BUTTON DEPRESSED. WHILE I MONITORED ATC, THE FO CONTACTED THE COMPANY AND THEN STARTED REPROGRAMMING THE FMC FOR THE RWY 24R APCH. AFTER A FEW MINS, I REALIZED THAT WE HAD NOT RECEIVED A FURTHER CLRNC FROM ATC, THAN OUR N HDG, AND THAT WE HAD A RADIO PROBLEM. I INFORMED THE FO OF THIS AND WE STARTED TROUBLE SHOOTING, EVENTUALLY DISCOVERING THE MISPLACED MIC. WE RE-ESTABLISHED COMS WITH ATC AND WERE VECTORED BACK TO AN AUTO LNDG ON 24R, WITH NO FURTHER PROBLEMS. LAX APCH CTL CONTRIBUTED TO THE ABOVE SITUATION BY NOT GIVING US TIMELY SPD REDUCTIONS TO FOLLOW THE HVY WDB, AND THUS REQUIRING US TO BE VECTORED OFF COURSE JUST OUTSIDE THE OM AND THEN BY NOT GIVING US AN EXPECTED FURTHER CLRNC AFTER OUR LEVEL OFF AT 2000 FT NEAR THE OM ON OUR INITIAL APCH TO 25L, WHEN IT WAS OBVIOUS TO THEM THAT WE WERE STILL TOO CLOSE IN SEP TO BOTH MAKE SAFE LNDGS. LAX APCH CTL OFTEN EXPECTS US TO MAINTAIN AIRSPD (200 KTS OR MORE) UNTIL 10 MI OUT, THEN EXPECTS US TO SLOW AND DSND RAPIDLY TO FIT INTO THEIR TFC PATTERN. THIS SITUATION OFTEN RESULTS IN AN UNSTABLE APCH UNTIL VERY SHORT FINAL, ESPECIALLY WITH 2 ENG, LGT ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.