37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 209685 |
Time | |
Date | 199205 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : sfo airport : sjc |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute airway : oak |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10000 |
ASRS Report | 209685 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
On the golden gate 3 arrival we were cleared to 12000 MSL after several step down clrncs on our descent into sjc. It was day pm and not terribly busy. We (the captain and copilot) both heard the controller query us if we could make 6000 MSL, 6 DME north of sfo VOR, which would jam us on the descent, but we acknowledged that we could make the restriction. Idle, spdbrakes, and high speed, high rate of descent was implemented and we were well on our way to complying with the 6000 MSL restriction when we were called by approach at 8000 MSL and told our clearance was to 12000 MSL and to climb back up. We were on the sfo 303 degree radial and 12 DME at this time. He then said that clearance to 6000 MSL at 6 NM north of sfo was for a brand X and that we could maintain 9000 MSL as there was no conflict. He also said in the future to question any clearance below 11000 MSL if you are not going into sfo. He repeated several times that there was no problem this time and to maintain 9000 MSL. I am concerned because of the scenario. We had just been handed off from one approach controller to another and checked in with clearance to 12000 MSL. We were immediately queried if we could make 6000 ft, 6 mi north of sfo which put us in a tight situation which we quickly determined we could do, in a frame of mind that we want to 'help out' and make things go smoothly for the controllers. In this case, what I feel happened was this: we checked in and blocked the controller's call to X. X did not hear approach, the controller did not know he was blocked and we did not know anything was amiss when he immediately came back with the question about making 6000 ft, 6 mi north of sfo. Now, the controller thinks he is talking to X when we answer. We don't know anything different, as we had just checked in and were expecting an acknowledgement as usual, and X doesn't know anything because we blocked approach's call. In this case, all calls and clrncs were acknowledged, although by the wrong people. Also, due to the immediacy of action to make a restriction, acknowledgement by call sign was degraded. In this case, the only one to catch the mistake would have been the controller on the final readback by us accepting the 6000 ft clearance.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR MLG ACFT ACKNOWLEDGED AND FLEW THE CLRNC OF ANOTHER ACR ACFT. ATC FINALLY SORTED THIS OUT. THERE WAS NO CONFLICT.
Narrative: ON THE GOLDEN GATE 3 ARR WE WERE CLRED TO 12000 MSL AFTER SEVERAL STEP DOWN CLRNCS ON OUR DSCNT INTO SJC. IT WAS DAY PM AND NOT TERRIBLY BUSY. WE (THE CAPT AND COPLT) BOTH HEARD THE CTLR QUERY US IF WE COULD MAKE 6000 MSL, 6 DME N OF SFO VOR, WHICH WOULD JAM US ON THE DSCNT, BUT WE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WE COULD MAKE THE RESTRICTION. IDLE, SPDBRAKES, AND HIGH SPD, HIGH RATE OF DSCNT WAS IMPLEMENTED AND WE WERE WELL ON OUR WAY TO COMPLYING WITH THE 6000 MSL RESTRICTION WHEN WE WERE CALLED BY APCH AT 8000 MSL AND TOLD OUR CLRNC WAS TO 12000 MSL AND TO CLB BACK UP. WE WERE ON THE SFO 303 DEG RADIAL AND 12 DME AT THIS TIME. HE THEN SAID THAT CLRNC TO 6000 MSL AT 6 NM N OF SFO WAS FOR A BRAND X AND THAT WE COULD MAINTAIN 9000 MSL AS THERE WAS NO CONFLICT. HE ALSO SAID IN THE FUTURE TO QUESTION ANY CLRNC BELOW 11000 MSL IF YOU ARE NOT GOING INTO SFO. HE REPEATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT THERE WAS NO PROBLEM THIS TIME AND TO MAINTAIN 9000 MSL. I AM CONCERNED BECAUSE OF THE SCENARIO. WE HAD JUST BEEN HANDED OFF FROM ONE APCH CTLR TO ANOTHER AND CHKED IN WITH CLRNC TO 12000 MSL. WE WERE IMMEDIATELY QUERIED IF WE COULD MAKE 6000 FT, 6 MI N OF SFO WHICH PUT US IN A TIGHT SITUATION WHICH WE QUICKLY DETERMINED WE COULD DO, IN A FRAME OF MIND THAT WE WANT TO 'HELP OUT' AND MAKE THINGS GO SMOOTHLY FOR THE CTLRS. IN THIS CASE, WHAT I FEEL HAPPENED WAS THIS: WE CHKED IN AND BLOCKED THE CTLR'S CALL TO X. X DID NOT HEAR APCH, THE CTLR DID NOT KNOW HE WAS BLOCKED AND WE DID NOT KNOW ANYTHING WAS AMISS WHEN HE IMMEDIATELY CAME BACK WITH THE QUESTION ABOUT MAKING 6000 FT, 6 MI N OF SFO. NOW, THE CTLR THINKS HE IS TALKING TO X WHEN WE ANSWER. WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING DIFFERENT, AS WE HAD JUST CHKED IN AND WERE EXPECTING AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT AS USUAL, AND X DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING BECAUSE WE BLOCKED APCH'S CALL. IN THIS CASE, ALL CALLS AND CLRNCS WERE ACKNOWLEDGED, ALTHOUGH BY THE WRONG PEOPLE. ALSO, DUE TO THE IMMEDIACY OF ACTION TO MAKE A RESTRICTION, ACKNOWLEDGEMENT BY CALL SIGN WAS DEGRADED. IN THIS CASE, THE ONLY ONE TO CATCH THE MISTAKE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE CTLR ON THE FINAL READBACK BY US ACCEPTING THE 6000 FT CLRNC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.