37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 212369 |
Time | |
Date | 199206 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : grr |
State Reference | MI |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zau |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
Flight Phase | ground other : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 230 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 230 |
ASRS Report | 212369 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | incursion : runway |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
Airport | other physical facility |
Narrative:
Cleared to taxi to runway 10L for takeoff. En route to 10L, the parallel taxiway crosses the south end of runway 18/36. Just prior to this point, it is possible to take a right turn to runway 10L for intersection takeoff. We received permission to taxi to the 10L intersection and hold short of runway 18. Although runway 18 itself does not transect this r-l-right route to the 10L intersection, there are yellow hold lines painted on the taxiways. There were 2 such lines on the west side of the 18/36 centerline extensions. 1 was brighter than the other, but there were 2. As we crossed the first brighter painted one and still short of the faded one, ground/tower asked if we were holding short of 18. My first officer said yes. We were concerned then as to which hold line (of the 2) was valid, or were both valid? There was another aircraft over 100 ft behind us. Since we were approximately 10 ft past the first bright hold short line, I allowed the aircraft to drift back approximately 10 ft to ensure compliance since tower indicated an aircraft on final for runway 36, even though the runway did not even transect the current taxiway we were on. There was no conflict with the aircraft behind but the presence of 2 hold short lines is confusing. If the faded one is no longer valid, it should be completely painted out.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SMT CROSSES 1 OF 2 HOLD LINES AND THEN BACKS ACFT TO GET BEHIND IT.
Narrative: CLRED TO TAXI TO RWY 10L FOR TKOF. ENRTE TO 10L, THE PARALLEL TAXIWAY CROSSES THE S END OF RWY 18/36. JUST PRIOR TO THIS POINT, IT IS POSSIBLE TO TAKE A R TURN TO RWY 10L FOR INTXN TKOF. WE RECEIVED PERMISSION TO TAXI TO THE 10L INTXN AND HOLD SHORT OF RWY 18. ALTHOUGH RWY 18 ITSELF DOES NOT TRANSECT THIS R-L-R RTE TO THE 10L INTXN, THERE ARE YELLOW HOLD LINES PAINTED ON THE TAXIWAYS. THERE WERE 2 SUCH LINES ON THE W SIDE OF THE 18/36 CTRLINE EXTENSIONS. 1 WAS BRIGHTER THAN THE OTHER, BUT THERE WERE 2. AS WE CROSSED THE FIRST BRIGHTER PAINTED ONE AND STILL SHORT OF THE FADED ONE, GND/TWR ASKED IF WE WERE HOLDING SHORT OF 18. MY FO SAID YES. WE WERE CONCERNED THEN AS TO WHICH HOLD LINE (OF THE 2) WAS VALID, OR WERE BOTH VALID? THERE WAS ANOTHER ACFT OVER 100 FT BEHIND US. SINCE WE WERE APPROX 10 FT PAST THE FIRST BRIGHT HOLD SHORT LINE, I ALLOWED THE ACFT TO DRIFT BACK APPROX 10 FT TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE SINCE TWR INDICATED AN ACFT ON FINAL FOR RWY 36, EVEN THOUGH THE RWY DID NOT EVEN TRANSECT THE CURRENT TAXIWAY WE WERE ON. THERE WAS NO CONFLICT WITH THE ACFT BEHIND BUT THE PRESENCE OF 2 HOLD SHORT LINES IS CONFUSING. IF THE FADED ONE IS NO LONGER VALID, IT SHOULD BE COMPLETELY PAINTED OUT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.