37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 242107 |
Time | |
Date | 199305 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : san |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3500 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : san artcc : zdc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 242107 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : far non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight from lax to san on may/xx/93 was at 8000 ft on a downwind (right) to san. Approach control asked us if we had the airport and landing traffic in sight. We replied we did, so we were cleared for the visual approach with the restriction to maintain 5000 ft until crossing the mission bay (mzb) 084 degree radial. The first officer read back the clearance, but I don't think the first officer caught the restriction. I asked the first officer to tune the 084 degree radial of mzb which he did. I continued to descend without checking the VOR needle. In my mind I was thinking the reciprocal of 084 degree radial. I assumed the restriction was to keep us high until clear of miramar so when it appeared we were clear of miramar I continued the descent below 5000 ft. Also, the first officer on 2 occasions gave me the nod and said 'it's clear now, you can make it.' the first time he said it I elected to continue downwind to make sure I had plenty of room to get down and to make sure I had complied with the 5000 ft restriction. The second time he said it I had sort of 'put aside' mentally the restriction about the 084 degree radial and at about 3500 ft on crosswind the controller 'jumped all over us' for not complying with his instructions. We had dropped through the ceiling of the TCA. Even though we were given the restriction, the last words of the clearance of the controller were 'cleared for the visual approach.' those words prevailed in my mind and being unfamiliar with visual approachs at san I formed a picture (erroneous as it was) in my mind of what the controller wanted us to do. The first officer was part of the problem. I don't think he mentally accepted the clearance as given. He kept urging me to start my crosswind with only the thought of whether I could physically get down from our position and without regard to the 5000 ft/084 degree radial mzb restriction. In retrospect, I wish I had not accepted the visual approach and instead have required a vector to final. The controller (I feel) was trying to get rid of us. By accepting the visual approach with the restriction, we 'did it to ourselves' -- we busted the altitude restriction and set ourselves up for a possible flight violation. My mistake was 1) assuming I know what the controller wanted, and 2) not visually confirming it with the VOR when I was across the 084 degree radial mzb.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CAPT OF AN ACR LGT ACFT DSNDED BELOW ASSIGNED XING RESTRICTION ALT RESULTING IN EXITING THE TCA.
Narrative: FLT FROM LAX TO SAN ON MAY/XX/93 WAS AT 8000 FT ON A DOWNWIND (R) TO SAN. APCH CTL ASKED US IF WE HAD THE ARPT AND LNDG TFC IN SIGHT. WE REPLIED WE DID, SO WE WERE CLRED FOR THE VISUAL APCH WITH THE RESTRICTION TO MAINTAIN 5000 FT UNTIL XING THE MISSION BAY (MZB) 084 DEG RADIAL. THE FO READ BACK THE CLRNC, BUT I DON'T THINK THE FO CAUGHT THE RESTRICTION. I ASKED THE FO TO TUNE THE 084 DEG RADIAL OF MZB WHICH HE DID. I CONTINUED TO DSND WITHOUT CHKING THE VOR NEEDLE. IN MY MIND I WAS THINKING THE RECIPROCAL OF 084 DEG RADIAL. I ASSUMED THE RESTRICTION WAS TO KEEP US HIGH UNTIL CLR OF MIRAMAR SO WHEN IT APPEARED WE WERE CLR OF MIRAMAR I CONTINUED THE DSCNT BELOW 5000 FT. ALSO, THE FO ON 2 OCCASIONS GAVE ME THE NOD AND SAID 'IT'S CLR NOW, YOU CAN MAKE IT.' THE FIRST TIME HE SAID IT I ELECTED TO CONTINUE DOWNWIND TO MAKE SURE I HAD PLENTY OF ROOM TO GET DOWN AND TO MAKE SURE I HAD COMPLIED WITH THE 5000 FT RESTRICTION. THE SECOND TIME HE SAID IT I HAD SORT OF 'PUT ASIDE' MENTALLY THE RESTRICTION ABOUT THE 084 DEG RADIAL AND AT ABOUT 3500 FT ON XWIND THE CTLR 'JUMPED ALL OVER US' FOR NOT COMPLYING WITH HIS INSTRUCTIONS. WE HAD DROPPED THROUGH THE CEILING OF THE TCA. EVEN THOUGH WE WERE GIVEN THE RESTRICTION, THE LAST WORDS OF THE CLRNC OF THE CTLR WERE 'CLRED FOR THE VISUAL APCH.' THOSE WORDS PREVAILED IN MY MIND AND BEING UNFAMILIAR WITH VISUAL APCHS AT SAN I FORMED A PICTURE (ERRONEOUS AS IT WAS) IN MY MIND OF WHAT THE CTLR WANTED US TO DO. THE FO WAS PART OF THE PROB. I DON'T THINK HE MENTALLY ACCEPTED THE CLRNC AS GIVEN. HE KEPT URGING ME TO START MY XWIND WITH ONLY THE THOUGHT OF WHETHER I COULD PHYSICALLY GET DOWN FROM OUR POS AND WITHOUT REGARD TO THE 5000 FT/084 DEG RADIAL MZB RESTRICTION. IN RETROSPECT, I WISH I HAD NOT ACCEPTED THE VISUAL APCH AND INSTEAD HAVE REQUIRED A VECTOR TO FINAL. THE CTLR (I FEEL) WAS TRYING TO GET RID OF US. BY ACCEPTING THE VISUAL APCH WITH THE RESTRICTION, WE 'DID IT TO OURSELVES' -- WE BUSTED THE ALT RESTRICTION AND SET OURSELVES UP FOR A POSSIBLE FLT VIOLATION. MY MISTAKE WAS 1) ASSUMING I KNOW WHAT THE CTLR WANTED, AND 2) NOT VISUALLY CONFIRMING IT WITH THE VOR WHEN I WAS ACROSS THE 084 DEG RADIAL MZB.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.