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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 258131 |
Time | |
Date | 199312 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4500 msl bound upper : 4500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 258131 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : far non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
Had been kept high during a civet 4 approach to runway 25L at lax, was issued TA's 3 or 4 times for aircraft low and ahead, was unable to pick out any targets. I was finally cleared a visual to runway 25R from 5000 ft and quite close in. With gear down and flaps 20 degrees (airspeed 170 KTS) approaching 4500 ft I received an RA from TCASII. HSI showed aircraft very close and almost directly below. I followed the RA by climbing and was then too close in for approach. Informed tower we were going around and proceeded to airport at approximately 4500 ft and was cleared to descend to 2000 ft. We retracted gear and flaps, during descent received a TA followed by another RA. Was able to visually sight target aircraft and did not have to follow the RA. Passed above and behind aircraft. Was vectored for a visual approach to runway 24R at lax, approach and landing uneventful. I contacted lax tower (approach control) after landing, and was told I created a lot of problems by following RA and going around. I replied that company (and my) policy is to follow any RA for a target that cannot be visually idented. Controller seemed to be having difficulty with my position (policy). Company also has policy that states you can turn off RA and only use TA position on TCASII if you are in a high traffic area (like lax) using parallel approachs. However, this is up to the captain's discretion. Which means you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. Regardless of ATC problems, I will continue to follow any RA that I cannot visually identify. An ATC problem is preferable to broken aircraft and dead people (passenger).
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LGT FLC HAS TCASII RA ON APCH, MAKES GAR.
Narrative: HAD BEEN KEPT HIGH DURING A CIVET 4 APCH TO RWY 25L AT LAX, WAS ISSUED TA'S 3 OR 4 TIMES FOR ACFT LOW AND AHEAD, WAS UNABLE TO PICK OUT ANY TARGETS. I WAS FINALLY CLRED A VISUAL TO RWY 25R FROM 5000 FT AND QUITE CLOSE IN. WITH GEAR DOWN AND FLAPS 20 DEGS (AIRSPD 170 KTS) APCHING 4500 FT I RECEIVED AN RA FROM TCASII. HSI SHOWED ACFT VERY CLOSE AND ALMOST DIRECTLY BELOW. I FOLLOWED THE RA BY CLBING AND WAS THEN TOO CLOSE IN FOR APCH. INFORMED TWR WE WERE GOING AROUND AND PROCEEDED TO ARPT AT APPROX 4500 FT AND WAS CLRED TO DSND TO 2000 FT. WE RETRACTED GEAR AND FLAPS, DURING DSCNT RECEIVED A TA FOLLOWED BY ANOTHER RA. WAS ABLE TO VISUALLY SIGHT TARGET ACFT AND DID NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RA. PASSED ABOVE AND BEHIND ACFT. WAS VECTORED FOR A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 24R AT LAX, APCH AND LNDG UNEVENTFUL. I CONTACTED LAX TWR (APCH CTL) AFTER LNDG, AND WAS TOLD I CREATED A LOT OF PROBS BY FOLLOWING RA AND GOING AROUND. I REPLIED THAT COMPANY (AND MY) POLICY IS TO FOLLOW ANY RA FOR A TARGET THAT CANNOT BE VISUALLY IDENTED. CTLR SEEMED TO BE HAVING DIFFICULTY WITH MY POS (POLICY). COMPANY ALSO HAS POLICY THAT STATES YOU CAN TURN OFF RA AND ONLY USE TA POS ON TCASII IF YOU ARE IN A HIGH TFC AREA (LIKE LAX) USING PARALLEL APCHS. HOWEVER, THIS IS UP TO THE CAPT'S DISCRETION. WHICH MEANS YOU ARE DAMNED IF YOU DO AND DAMNED IF YOU DON'T. REGARDLESS OF ATC PROBS, I WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW ANY RA THAT I CANNOT VISUALLY IDENT. AN ATC PROB IS PREFERABLE TO BROKEN ACFT AND DEAD PEOPLE (PAX).
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.