37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 279357 |
Time | |
Date | 199407 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 3500 msl bound upper : 3500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 2600 |
ASRS Report | 279357 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Cleared to cross santa monica VOR (smo) at or above 7000 ft, descend to 2500 ft to expect a visual to runway 25L. I did not see nor hear any other traffic that would create any problems. I had already briefed the first officer to not be too eager to acknowledge traffic or the airport because of the haze and setting sun. After passing smo, we were told to 'expedite descent to 2500 ft and report traffic (an md-80) for runway 25L in sight.' I said, 'looking for the traffic.' the controller said, 'do you have the field?' I replied, 'we do now, but we may lose it when we descend into the haze.' the controller said, ' cleared for the visual runway 25L. Let me know if you lose the field. Your traffic is at 12 O'clock for runway 25L.' I stated that we did not have the traffic and he said, 'maintain 150 KTS and contact tower.' I said, 'what speed?' he replied, ' 150 KTS.' when the copilot turned into the airport, she said, 'I don't see the field, but I have hollywood park.' I said, 'I see the runways, and I think that I see the md-80.' (I confirmed this with TCASII). We made an uneventful landing on runway 25L after the md-80. I believe that the controller was trying to do us a favor by giving us runway 25L with the only other aircraft in the sky also going there. (Our gates are near the 25's). In this case, he gave a speed assignment that is not in accordance with the ATC's handbook, without saying 'if able.' this controller was 'forcing the system' to do us a favor. However, they also deviate from approved procedures to increase capacity. Lax is an airport where the field can be visible at 7000 ft, and when you turn in with the haze and setting sun, it can be 3 mi or less visibility.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR X ON VISUAL APCH FOLLOWING A MD-80 WAS ASSIGNED A SPD BELOW WHAT CTLR HANDBOOK CALLS FOR.
Narrative: CLRED TO CROSS SANTA MONICA VOR (SMO) AT OR ABOVE 7000 FT, DSND TO 2500 FT TO EXPECT A VISUAL TO RWY 25L. I DID NOT SEE NOR HEAR ANY OTHER TFC THAT WOULD CREATE ANY PROBS. I HAD ALREADY BRIEFED THE FO TO NOT BE TOO EAGER TO ACKNOWLEDGE TFC OR THE ARPT BECAUSE OF THE HAZE AND SETTING SUN. AFTER PASSING SMO, WE WERE TOLD TO 'EXPEDITE DSCNT TO 2500 FT AND RPT TFC (AN MD-80) FOR RWY 25L IN SIGHT.' I SAID, 'LOOKING FOR THE TFC.' THE CTLR SAID, 'DO YOU HAVE THE FIELD?' I REPLIED, 'WE DO NOW, BUT WE MAY LOSE IT WHEN WE DSND INTO THE HAZE.' THE CTLR SAID, ' CLRED FOR THE VISUAL RWY 25L. LET ME KNOW IF YOU LOSE THE FIELD. YOUR TFC IS AT 12 O'CLOCK FOR RWY 25L.' I STATED THAT WE DID NOT HAVE THE TFC AND HE SAID, 'MAINTAIN 150 KTS AND CONTACT TWR.' I SAID, 'WHAT SPD?' HE REPLIED, ' 150 KTS.' WHEN THE COPLT TURNED INTO THE ARPT, SHE SAID, 'I DON'T SEE THE FIELD, BUT I HAVE HOLLYWOOD PARK.' I SAID, 'I SEE THE RWYS, AND I THINK THAT I SEE THE MD-80.' (I CONFIRMED THIS WITH TCASII). WE MADE AN UNEVENTFUL LNDG ON RWY 25L AFTER THE MD-80. I BELIEVE THAT THE CTLR WAS TRYING TO DO US A FAVOR BY GIVING US RWY 25L WITH THE ONLY OTHER ACFT IN THE SKY ALSO GOING THERE. (OUR GATES ARE NEAR THE 25'S). IN THIS CASE, HE GAVE A SPD ASSIGNMENT THAT IS NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE ATC'S HANDBOOK, WITHOUT SAYING 'IF ABLE.' THIS CTLR WAS 'FORCING THE SYS' TO DO US A FAVOR. HOWEVER, THEY ALSO DEVIATE FROM APPROVED PROCS TO INCREASE CAPACITY. LAX IS AN ARPT WHERE THE FIELD CAN BE VISIBLE AT 7000 FT, AND WHEN YOU TURN IN WITH THE HAZE AND SETTING SUN, IT CAN BE 3 MI OR LESS VISIBILITY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.