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Attributes | |
ACN | 300182 |
Time | |
Date | 199503 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : grf |
State Reference | WA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | general aviation : instructional |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | enroute : direct |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | instruction : instructor |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 85 flight time total : 12368 flight time type : 722 |
ASRS Report | 300182 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : student |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
My student and I were practicing approachs. Our route was from rnt to pwt to tiw to rnt. Prior to our approach at pwt, sea approach asked us for our request at pwt and what would follow. I replied that we requested an NDB hold and NDB at pwt, then an ILS and NDB at tiw. Followed by an NDB at rnt. Prior to the ILS at tiw, approach asked what followed the ILS, and I requested an NDB at tiw and at rnt. On our ILS missed approach, we were asked what we wanted next, and I answered that we wanted to go to graye for the NDB, meaning direct to the graye NDB for the full NDB runway 35 at tiw. We were cleared direct graye, and then cleared to cross the beacon outbound and cleared for the approach. My student read back the clearance. As we turned inbound from the procedure turn, I called approach to get a missed approach instruction and frequency change. The controller responded that it looked like we were flying the NDB at tiw, not gray (army air field)! I told him that was right, that was what we wanted. He said -- no problem and cleared us for the NDB runway 35 at tiw. I can understand what happened. My request 'direct graye for the NDB' was easy to misunderstand (the controller was working 2 frequencys, 1 with military traffic at tcm on UHF). Graye and gray sound the same. Also, we read back the 'cleared for the approach,' which was an unlikely clearance at tiw with its operating tower, but likely at gray with the tower closed. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: pps at sea stated they do have an occasional misunderstanding about the NDB and the airport but this is GA pilots unfamiliar with the area.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SIMILAR SOUNDING NDB AND ARPT CAUSED CTLR CONFUSION AS TO WHAT PLT WAS DOING.
Narrative: MY STUDENT AND I WERE PRACTICING APCHS. OUR RTE WAS FROM RNT TO PWT TO TIW TO RNT. PRIOR TO OUR APCH AT PWT, SEA APCH ASKED US FOR OUR REQUEST AT PWT AND WHAT WOULD FOLLOW. I REPLIED THAT WE REQUESTED AN NDB HOLD AND NDB AT PWT, THEN AN ILS AND NDB AT TIW. FOLLOWED BY AN NDB AT RNT. PRIOR TO THE ILS AT TIW, APCH ASKED WHAT FOLLOWED THE ILS, AND I REQUESTED AN NDB AT TIW AND AT RNT. ON OUR ILS MISSED APCH, WE WERE ASKED WHAT WE WANTED NEXT, AND I ANSWERED THAT WE WANTED TO GO TO GRAYE FOR THE NDB, MEANING DIRECT TO THE GRAYE NDB FOR THE FULL NDB RWY 35 AT TIW. WE WERE CLRED DIRECT GRAYE, AND THEN CLRED TO CROSS THE BEACON OUTBOUND AND CLRED FOR THE APCH. MY STUDENT READ BACK THE CLRNC. AS WE TURNED INBOUND FROM THE PROC TURN, I CALLED APCH TO GET A MISSED APCH INSTRUCTION AND FREQ CHANGE. THE CTLR RESPONDED THAT IT LOOKED LIKE WE WERE FLYING THE NDB AT TIW, NOT GRAY (ARMY AIR FIELD)! I TOLD HIM THAT WAS RIGHT, THAT WAS WHAT WE WANTED. HE SAID -- NO PROB AND CLRED US FOR THE NDB RWY 35 AT TIW. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED. MY REQUEST 'DIRECT GRAYE FOR THE NDB' WAS EASY TO MISUNDERSTAND (THE CTLR WAS WORKING 2 FREQS, 1 WITH MIL TFC AT TCM ON UHF). GRAYE AND GRAY SOUND THE SAME. ALSO, WE READ BACK THE 'CLRED FOR THE APCH,' WHICH WAS AN UNLIKELY CLRNC AT TIW WITH ITS OPERATING TWR, BUT LIKELY AT GRAY WITH THE TWR CLOSED. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: PPS AT SEA STATED THEY DO HAVE AN OCCASIONAL MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE NDB AND THE ARPT BUT THIS IS GA PLTS UNFAMILIAR WITH THE AREA.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.