37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 345640 |
Time | |
Date | 199608 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : pxn |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 10000 msl bound upper : 10700 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zoa |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute airway : zoa |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 6500 flight time type : 2000 |
ASRS Report | 345640 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
ZOA gave us a crossing clearance for bored intersection at 10000 ft and 250 KTS. The captain wasn't paying good attention to the clearance like he should have (he physically set the altitude alerter to 10000 ft and pointed to it when we were given the clearance). When it first started looking like he might miss the crossing restr, I asked him if he was planning on bored at 10000 ft and 250 KTS, he replied that he was planning on 250 KTS at bored but not 10000 ft! I reminded him that we were cleared to cross at 10000 ft and 250 KTS and he made a very feeble attempt to get down. He could have had it made in the shade but he didn't! He told me to ask center for some relief and ZOA responded with, 'oh, do your best. I do need you at 10000 ft by bushy but do your best for bored.' I informed the captain that we needed to tell center unable if we weren't going to cross bored at 10000 ft since 'do your best' wouldn't relieve us of the crossing restr. He still made no effort to get down like he should have and we crossed bored at 10700 ft and 250 KTS. To my knowledge this didn't cause any problems with center, but I don't care for 'do your best' responses from ATC. Also, it's been my observation for the last 6 months or so that controllers don't listen to readbacks anymore!! For example, I find that frequently in handoffs to other controllers I read back the new frequency exactly as I heard it. After several attempts to call the next controller on the 'new' frequency, I have to go back to the old frequency when there's no answer only to find that I'm calling on the wrong frequency. Why don't the controllers catch this when I read back an incorrect frequency and save the time from having me come back several mins later to get the correct frequency?? Several times in the last 6 months or so this has caused problems because when we finally get on the correct frequency, the controllers had been looking for us. This problem is most noticeable in ZOA and ZLA!!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CAPT OF AN MLG DSNDED SO SLOWLY THAT HE FAILED TO MEET XING ALT AFTER HE WAS REMINDED BY HIS FO AND ATC.
Narrative: ZOA GAVE US A XING CLRNC FOR BORED INTXN AT 10000 FT AND 250 KTS. THE CAPT WASN'T PAYING GOOD ATTN TO THE CLRNC LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE (HE PHYSICALLY SET THE ALT ALERTER TO 10000 FT AND POINTED TO IT WHEN WE WERE GIVEN THE CLRNC). WHEN IT FIRST STARTED LOOKING LIKE HE MIGHT MISS THE XING RESTR, I ASKED HIM IF HE WAS PLANNING ON BORED AT 10000 FT AND 250 KTS, HE REPLIED THAT HE WAS PLANNING ON 250 KTS AT BORED BUT NOT 10000 FT! I REMINDED HIM THAT WE WERE CLRED TO CROSS AT 10000 FT AND 250 KTS AND HE MADE A VERY FEEBLE ATTEMPT TO GET DOWN. HE COULD HAVE HAD IT MADE IN THE SHADE BUT HE DIDN'T! HE TOLD ME TO ASK CTR FOR SOME RELIEF AND ZOA RESPONDED WITH, 'OH, DO YOUR BEST. I DO NEED YOU AT 10000 FT BY BUSHY BUT DO YOUR BEST FOR BORED.' I INFORMED THE CAPT THAT WE NEEDED TO TELL CTR UNABLE IF WE WEREN'T GOING TO CROSS BORED AT 10000 FT SINCE 'DO YOUR BEST' WOULDN'T RELIEVE US OF THE XING RESTR. HE STILL MADE NO EFFORT TO GET DOWN LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE AND WE CROSSED BORED AT 10700 FT AND 250 KTS. TO MY KNOWLEDGE THIS DIDN'T CAUSE ANY PROBS WITH CTR, BUT I DON'T CARE FOR 'DO YOUR BEST' RESPONSES FROM ATC. ALSO, IT'S BEEN MY OBSERVATION FOR THE LAST 6 MONTHS OR SO THAT CTLRS DON'T LISTEN TO READBACKS ANYMORE!! FOR EXAMPLE, I FIND THAT FREQUENTLY IN HDOFS TO OTHER CTLRS I READ BACK THE NEW FREQ EXACTLY AS I HEARD IT. AFTER SEVERAL ATTEMPTS TO CALL THE NEXT CTLR ON THE 'NEW' FREQ, I HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE OLD FREQ WHEN THERE'S NO ANSWER ONLY TO FIND THAT I'M CALLING ON THE WRONG FREQ. WHY DON'T THE CTLRS CATCH THIS WHEN I READ BACK AN INCORRECT FREQ AND SAVE THE TIME FROM HAVING ME COME BACK SEVERAL MINS LATER TO GET THE CORRECT FREQ?? SEVERAL TIMES IN THE LAST 6 MONTHS OR SO THIS HAS CAUSED PROBS BECAUSE WHEN WE FINALLY GET ON THE CORRECT FREQ, THE CTLRS HAD BEEN LOOKING FOR US. THIS PROB IS MOST NOTICEABLE IN ZOA AND ZLA!!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.