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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 455146 |
Time | |
Date | 199911 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : msp.airport |
State Reference | MN |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 0 msl bound upper : 1000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : msp.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 30l |
Flight Phase | descent : approach other |
Route In Use | approach : traffic pattern approach : straight in |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : msp.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground : takeoff roll |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 455146 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground critical inflight encounter other non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Environmental Factor Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
When we were on about a 2 mi final, tower cleared the aircraft waiting #1 (not position and hold) for takeoff. I immediately said, 'there's no way this is going to work, I'd plan on a go around.' captain continued the approach after stating, 'let's see.' as we were at about 200-300 ft AGL, the B727 began to roll. I announced, 'he's starting to roll.' the captain said nothing and continued. Concerned now, and unsure of the captain's intentions, I then said, 'he's still on the runway,' and about 10 seconds later, again, 'he's still on the runway' (approximately 50 ft AGL). The captain continued and landed. The other B727 was beginning his rotation, but still on the runway when we touched down. Contributing factors. I should have been more assertive -- directly questioning the captain regarding his intentions. I should have also said, 'we need to go around.' captain chose to press. Afterward, he said that the real issue is that 'if the other aircraft had aborted, we could have stopped before we would have reached the other aircraft.' I disagree that this was an issue at all. We never should have landed. Another contributing factor: both captain and copilot had about 50 hours in their seat (crew position), though both had additional time (captain as first officer, myself as flight engineer). I believe crew inexperience contributed here.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B727 FAIRLY NEW CAPT DISREGARDS FO ADVOCATING GAR AND LANDS ACFT WHILE DEPARTING ACFT IS STILL ON THE RWY ROTATING AT MSP.
Narrative: WHEN WE WERE ON ABOUT A 2 MI FINAL, TWR CLRED THE ACFT WAITING #1 (NOT POS AND HOLD) FOR TKOF. I IMMEDIATELY SAID, 'THERE'S NO WAY THIS IS GOING TO WORK, I'D PLAN ON A GAR.' CAPT CONTINUED THE APCH AFTER STATING, 'LET'S SEE.' AS WE WERE AT ABOUT 200-300 FT AGL, THE B727 BEGAN TO ROLL. I ANNOUNCED, 'HE'S STARTING TO ROLL.' THE CAPT SAID NOTHING AND CONTINUED. CONCERNED NOW, AND UNSURE OF THE CAPT'S INTENTIONS, I THEN SAID, 'HE'S STILL ON THE RWY,' AND ABOUT 10 SECONDS LATER, AGAIN, 'HE'S STILL ON THE RWY' (APPROX 50 FT AGL). THE CAPT CONTINUED AND LANDED. THE OTHER B727 WAS BEGINNING HIS ROTATION, BUT STILL ON THE RWY WHEN WE TOUCHED DOWN. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS. I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE ASSERTIVE -- DIRECTLY QUESTIONING THE CAPT REGARDING HIS INTENTIONS. I SHOULD HAVE ALSO SAID, 'WE NEED TO GO AROUND.' CAPT CHOSE TO PRESS. AFTERWARD, HE SAID THAT THE REAL ISSUE IS THAT 'IF THE OTHER ACFT HAD ABORTED, WE COULD HAVE STOPPED BEFORE WE WOULD HAVE REACHED THE OTHER ACFT.' I DISAGREE THAT THIS WAS AN ISSUE AT ALL. WE NEVER SHOULD HAVE LANDED. ANOTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTOR: BOTH CAPT AND COPLT HAD ABOUT 50 HRS IN THEIR SEAT (CREW POS), THOUGH BOTH HAD ADDITIONAL TIME (CAPT AS FO, MYSELF AS FE). I BELIEVE CREW INEXPERIENCE CONTRIBUTED HERE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.