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Attributes | |
ACN | 465927 |
Time | |
Date | 200003 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : stl.airport |
State Reference | MO |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : stl.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B727-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : stl.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 5000 |
ASRS Report | 465927 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : second officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 33 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 33 |
ASRS Report | 465563 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe incursion : runway non adherence : clearance non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : executed go around |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Facility ATC Human Performance Airport FAA Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Inter Facility Coordination Failure Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : stl.tower |
Narrative:
Taxiing out of stl for departure. Issued and received a hold short clearance for runway 12R, an active takeoff and landing runway. Holding short #2, they cleared the #1 aircraft to cross runway 12R. We are now #1 to cross along with another aircraft approximately 3 txwys down. We responded with a full readback including call sign to expedite across runway 12R along with the other aircraft holding short parallel with us. Stl tower does this commonly, taxi numerous aircraft across an active runway at the same time. As we proceeded across runway 12R with moderate to excessive power, the other aircraft holding short was also crossing. Simultaneously an aircraft was taxiing into position but using a different frequency (tower). At one point there were 3 aircraft on the runway at the same time, with another on short final, that aircraft executing a go around. While we were holding short with the other aircraft on a parallel taxiway awaiting our crossing clearance we responded to a garbled call sign that included one of our numbers but clearly stated to expedite the crossing. We thought the tower called 2 aircraft at the same time to expedite across the runway. We responded with full readback with no correction from the tower. I confirmed with the first officer who said back cleared to cross quickly! which we did. After arriving back at the destination we received a call from stl tower that they never issued a crossing clearance to us, only issued a clearance for the other aircraft holding short. We questioned why they didnT correct our readback. They said one was never received, therefore could not correct it. We still believe we heard our number, at least partially. Factors that led to this event, or procedures that led to the event: 1) stl tower and ground using separate frequencys to control aircraft on the same active runway. This differs from most airports where tower controls aircraft for takeoff, landing and runway crossing. Ground control during this incident was very busy with a lot of radio activity. Tower control is usually much quieter which would help in this type of situation. With less talk on the frequency, listening to an important runway crossing clearance would not get confused with someone receiving a clearance to taxi out a ramp area. 2) the factor that different major traffic airports can operate in different manners. A standardization between airports on who controls what piece of asphalt would help tremendously. 3) different power output of radios? Do newer aircraft have greater signal output than older aircraft? I was flying a B727 and my transmission was covered by an ATR72. Being much newer technology, is his radio stronger and clearer than mine? Food for thought. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: captain thinks stl is trying to handle too much traffic. He flew the same trip the next week, but was about 2 hours late. The reduced traffic made the operation much more comfortable. He attributes the runway confign for much of the controller workload. Supplemental information from acn 465563: we were holding short of runway 12R on runway 6 at approximately XA30. An ATR was adjacent to us, holding short on taxiway east. Ground control cleared an aircraft to cross runway 12R without delay. There was a B737 onto hold at the departure end of runway 12R. After the first officer acknowledged the clearance to cross, we noticed a B757 performing a go around from runway 12R. After we reached the other side of the runway, tower asked us if there had been some confusion about our clearance. The first officer replied, negative, understood we were cleared to cross without delay. at the same time we crossed runway 12R, the ATR crossed runway 12R at the same time. Apparently, the B737 could not be cleared for takeoff since there were 2 aircraft on the runway, crossing. Hence, the B757, who was on short final for runway 12R had to perform the go around. I believe a main cause of this situation is the fact that at stl, aircraft remain on ground frequency even for clearance to cross an active runway. If we had been on tower frequency, we would have heard the B737 aircraft being cleared onto the runway as well as the B757 being cleared to land, this would probably have prevented us from accepting the clearance to cross runway 12R. As it turned out, the clearance to cross runway 12R was only for the ATR, even though we acknowledged it, apparently the ATR was acknowledging the clearance at the same time we were, hence, ground control had no idea we were going to cross the runway at the same time. Therefore, a secondary cause of this situation is the fact that when one aircraftsouth radio blocks another aircraftsouth radio transmission, there is no way of knowing this if the xmissions were simultaneous. Supplemental information from acn 465654: we were up ground control. Had we been up tower, like most of the airports in the united states, we would have heard tower clear the B757 to land and the B737 to take off. I also believe that tower and ground were not talking to each other. Had we not crossed runway 12R, the ATR still would have. I do not believe the B737 could have taken off even if the ATR or our flight had not crossed. It would have taken the B737 at least 1 - 1 1/2 mins for the B737 to take off. The B757 had gone around when we were on the centerline of runway 12R. I believe the controllers were pushing the takeoff and landing. Our flight and ATR stepped on each othersouth radio call. Recommendation: 1) everyone should be up tower frequency when crossing an active runway. 2) do not rush everyone or expedite aircraft without having received full 3-WAY positive readback.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B727-200 CROSSES RWY 12R WHEN TAKING A CLRNC ISSUED TO ANOTHER ACFT BESIDE THEM AT STL, MO.
Narrative: TAXIING OUT OF STL FOR DEP. ISSUED AND RECEIVED A HOLD SHORT CLRNC FOR RWY 12R, AN ACTIVE TKOF AND LNDG RWY. HOLDING SHORT #2, THEY CLRED THE #1 ACFT TO CROSS RWY 12R. WE ARE NOW #1 TO CROSS ALONG WITH ANOTHER ACFT APPROX 3 TXWYS DOWN. WE RESPONDED WITH A FULL READBACK INCLUDING CALL SIGN TO EXPEDITE ACROSS RWY 12R ALONG WITH THE OTHER ACFT HOLDING SHORT PARALLEL WITH US. STL TWR DOES THIS COMMONLY, TAXI NUMEROUS ACFT ACROSS AN ACTIVE RWY AT THE SAME TIME. AS WE PROCEEDED ACROSS RWY 12R WITH MODERATE TO EXCESSIVE PWR, THE OTHER ACFT HOLDING SHORT WAS ALSO XING. SIMULTANEOUSLY AN ACFT WAS TAXIING INTO POS BUT USING A DIFFERENT FREQ (TWR). AT ONE POINT THERE WERE 3 ACFT ON THE RWY AT THE SAME TIME, WITH ANOTHER ON SHORT FINAL, THAT ACFT EXECUTING A GAR. WHILE WE WERE HOLDING SHORT WITH THE OTHER ACFT ON A PARALLEL TXWY AWAITING OUR XING CLRNC WE RESPONDED TO A GARBLED CALL SIGN THAT INCLUDED ONE OF OUR NUMBERS BUT CLRLY STATED TO EXPEDITE THE XING. WE THOUGHT THE TWR CALLED 2 ACFT AT THE SAME TIME TO EXPEDITE ACROSS THE RWY. WE RESPONDED WITH FULL READBACK WITH NO CORRECTION FROM THE TWR. I CONFIRMED WITH THE FO WHO SAID BACK CLRED TO CROSS QUICKLY! WHICH WE DID. AFTER ARRIVING BACK AT THE DEST WE RECEIVED A CALL FROM STL TWR THAT THEY NEVER ISSUED A XING CLRNC TO US, ONLY ISSUED A CLRNC FOR THE OTHER ACFT HOLDING SHORT. WE QUESTIONED WHY THEY DIDNT CORRECT OUR READBACK. THEY SAID ONE WAS NEVER RECEIVED, THEREFORE COULD NOT CORRECT IT. WE STILL BELIEVE WE HEARD OUR NUMBER, AT LEAST PARTIALLY. FACTORS THAT LED TO THIS EVENT, OR PROCS THAT LED TO THE EVENT: 1) STL TWR AND GND USING SEPARATE FREQS TO CTL ACFT ON THE SAME ACTIVE RWY. THIS DIFFERS FROM MOST ARPTS WHERE TWR CTLS ACFT FOR TKOF, LNDG AND RWY XING. GND CTL DURING THIS INCIDENT WAS VERY BUSY WITH A LOT OF RADIO ACTIVITY. TWR CTL IS USUALLY MUCH QUIETER WHICH WOULD HELP IN THIS TYPE OF SIT. WITH LESS TALK ON THE FREQ, LISTENING TO AN IMPORTANT RWY XING CLRNC WOULD NOT GET CONFUSED WITH SOMEONE RECEIVING A CLRNC TO TAXI OUT A RAMP AREA. 2) THE FACTOR THAT DIFFERENT MAJOR TFC ARPTS CAN OPERATE IN DIFFERENT MANNERS. A STANDARDIZATION BETWEEN ARPTS ON WHO CTLS WHAT PIECE OF ASPHALT WOULD HELP TREMENDOUSLY. 3) DIFFERENT PWR OUTPUT OF RADIOS? DO NEWER ACFT HAVE GREATER SIGNAL OUTPUT THAN OLDER ACFT? I WAS FLYING A B727 AND MY XMISSION WAS COVERED BY AN ATR72. BEING MUCH NEWER TECHNOLOGY, IS HIS RADIO STRONGER AND CLEARER THAN MINE? FOOD FOR THOUGHT. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: CAPT THINKS STL IS TRYING TO HANDLE TOO MUCH TFC. HE FLEW THE SAME TRIP THE NEXT WEEK, BUT WAS ABOUT 2 HOURS LATE. THE REDUCED TFC MADE THE OP MUCH MORE COMFORTABLE. HE ATTRIBUTES THE RWY CONFIGN FOR MUCH OF THE CTLR WORKLOAD. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 465563: WE WERE HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 12R ON RWY 6 AT APPROX XA30. AN ATR WAS ADJACENT TO US, HOLDING SHORT ON TXWY E. GND CTL CLRED AN ACFT TO CROSS RWY 12R WITHOUT DELAY. THERE WAS A B737 ONTO HOLD AT THE DEP END OF RWY 12R. AFTER THE FO ACKNOWLEDGED THE CLRNC TO CROSS, WE NOTICED A B757 PERFORMING A GAR FROM RWY 12R. AFTER WE REACHED THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RWY, TWR ASKED US IF THERE HAD BEEN SOME CONFUSION ABOUT OUR CLRNC. THE FO REPLIED, NEGATIVE, UNDERSTOOD WE WERE CLRED TO CROSS WITHOUT DELAY. AT THE SAME TIME WE CROSSED RWY 12R, THE ATR CROSSED RWY 12R AT THE SAME TIME. APPARENTLY, THE B737 COULD NOT BE CLRED FOR TKOF SINCE THERE WERE 2 ACFT ON THE RWY, XING. HENCE, THE B757, WHO WAS ON SHORT FINAL FOR RWY 12R HAD TO PERFORM THE GAR. I BELIEVE A MAIN CAUSE OF THIS SIT IS THE FACT THAT AT STL, ACFT REMAIN ON GND FREQ EVEN FOR CLRNC TO CROSS AN ACTIVE RWY. IF WE HAD BEEN ON TWR FREQ, WE WOULD HAVE HEARD THE B737 ACFT BEING CLRED ONTO THE RWY AS WELL AS THE B757 BEING CLRED TO LAND, THIS WOULD PROBABLY HAVE PREVENTED US FROM ACCEPTING THE CLRNC TO CROSS RWY 12R. AS IT TURNED OUT, THE CLRNC TO CROSS RWY 12R WAS ONLY FOR THE ATR, EVEN THOUGH WE ACKNOWLEDGED IT, APPARENTLY THE ATR WAS ACKNOWLEDGING THE CLRNC AT THE SAME TIME WE WERE, HENCE, GND CTL HAD NO IDEA WE WERE GOING TO CROSS THE RWY AT THE SAME TIME. THEREFORE, A SECONDARY CAUSE OF THIS SIT IS THE FACT THAT WHEN ONE ACFTS RADIO BLOCKS ANOTHER ACFTS RADIO XMISSION, THERE IS NO WAY OF KNOWING THIS IF THE XMISSIONS WERE SIMULTANEOUS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 465654: WE WERE UP GND CTL. HAD WE BEEN UP TWR, LIKE MOST OF THE ARPTS IN THE UNITED STATES, WE WOULD HAVE HEARD TWR CLR THE B757 TO LAND AND THE B737 TO TAKE OFF. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT TWR AND GND WERE NOT TALKING TO EACH OTHER. HAD WE NOT CROSSED RWY 12R, THE ATR STILL WOULD HAVE. I DO NOT BELIEVE THE B737 COULD HAVE TAKEN OFF EVEN IF THE ATR OR OUR FLT HAD NOT CROSSED. IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN THE B737 AT LEAST 1 - 1 1/2 MINS FOR THE B737 TO TAKE OFF. THE B757 HAD GONE AROUND WHEN WE WERE ON THE CTRLINE OF RWY 12R. I BELIEVE THE CTLRS WERE PUSHING THE TKOF AND LNDG. OUR FLT AND ATR STEPPED ON EACH OTHERS RADIO CALL. RECOMMENDATION: 1) EVERYONE SHOULD BE UP TWR FREQ WHEN XING AN ACTIVE RWY. 2) DO NOT RUSH EVERYONE OR EXPEDITE ACFT WITHOUT HAVING RECEIVED FULL 3-WAY POSITIVE READBACK.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.