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Attributes | |
ACN | 478743 |
Time | |
Date | 200007 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : pit.airport |
State Reference | PA |
Altitude | agl single value : 1000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : pit.tower tower : fll.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-400 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial |
Route In Use | departure : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : pit.tower |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial |
Route In Use | departure : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 6800 flight time type : 1000 |
ASRS Report | 478743 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 5000 |
ASRS Report | 478961 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
Miss Distance | vertical : 200 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
Cleared into position and hold runway 28L at intersection P by pit tower for departing traffic on runway 28R turning south. We were subsequently cleared for takeoff, maintain runway heading, at 1000 ft AGL (our normal power reduction/flap confign change altitude). We received a TCASII RA with an increase climb verbal command and red throughout the uvi in excess of 4500 FPM. Checking our TCASII display we noted a target just off our left wing and 200 ft vertical separation. No visual contact was ever established. Pit tower never alerted us to the traffic prior to takeoff or during climb out. The first time they tried to send us to departure I responded with 'stand by.' this prompted a reply from pit tower something to the effect 'you've got a VFR...he got you in sight/or he got you visual.' it had been a maximum thrust takeoff. No derate/standard temperature and airspeed was approximately V2 +10 KTS. This was not the traffic that had departed runway 28R. This event was over in seconds and the only possible response to our continued climb would have been firewall thrust and increase pitch even higher. I learned also that a TCASII RA can exceed the performance capabilities of the aircraft. All this at the core of (a TCA) class B airspace. I'd love to know what happened. Supplemental information from acn 478961: pit tower told us that traffic off our left had us in sight. Tower never gave us this traffic prior to takeoff. It was not the traffic that had departed runway 28R prior to our departure. Never acquired this traffic visually and tower never told us what type, direction or altitude of traffic. We never responded to the RA since it was over in a few seconds and we were cleared to departure frequency.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: NMAC AT PIT BTWN DEPARTING B737 AND UNKNOWN TFC AT DEP END OF TKOF RWY.
Narrative: CLRED INTO POS AND HOLD RWY 28L AT INTXN P BY PIT TWR FOR DEPARTING TFC ON RWY 28R TURNING S. WE WERE SUBSEQUENTLY CLRED FOR TKOF, MAINTAIN RWY HDG, AT 1000 FT AGL (OUR NORMAL PWR REDUCTION/FLAP CONFIGN CHANGE ALT). WE RECEIVED A TCASII RA WITH AN INCREASE CLB VERBAL COMMAND AND RED THROUGHOUT THE UVI IN EXCESS OF 4500 FPM. CHKING OUR TCASII DISPLAY WE NOTED A TARGET JUST OFF OUR L WING AND 200 FT VERT SEPARATION. NO VISUAL CONTACT WAS EVER ESTABLISHED. PIT TWR NEVER ALERTED US TO THE TFC PRIOR TO TKOF OR DURING CLBOUT. THE FIRST TIME THEY TRIED TO SEND US TO DEP I RESPONDED WITH 'STAND BY.' THIS PROMPTED A REPLY FROM PIT TWR SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT 'YOU'VE GOT A VFR...HE GOT YOU IN SIGHT/OR HE GOT YOU VISUAL.' IT HAD BEEN A MAX THRUST TKOF. NO DERATE/STANDARD TEMP AND AIRSPD WAS APPROX V2 +10 KTS. THIS WAS NOT THE TFC THAT HAD DEPARTED RWY 28R. THIS EVENT WAS OVER IN SECONDS AND THE ONLY POSSIBLE RESPONSE TO OUR CONTINUED CLB WOULD HAVE BEEN FIREWALL THRUST AND INCREASE PITCH EVEN HIGHER. I LEARNED ALSO THAT A TCASII RA CAN EXCEED THE PERFORMANCE CAPABILITIES OF THE ACFT. ALL THIS AT THE CORE OF (A TCA) CLASS B AIRSPACE. I'D LOVE TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 478961: PIT TWR TOLD US THAT TFC OFF OUR L HAD US IN SIGHT. TWR NEVER GAVE US THIS TFC PRIOR TO TKOF. IT WAS NOT THE TFC THAT HAD DEPARTED RWY 28R PRIOR TO OUR DEP. NEVER ACQUIRED THIS TFC VISUALLY AND TWR NEVER TOLD US WHAT TYPE, DIRECTION OR ALT OF TFC. WE NEVER RESPONDED TO THE RA SINCE IT WAS OVER IN A FEW SECONDS AND WE WERE CLRED TO DEP FREQ.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.