37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 592906 |
Time | |
Date | 200309 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : phl.airport |
State Reference | PA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 11500 |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : phl.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 592906 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar/mode c other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Weather Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
During the initial portion of descent, we were asked to 'maintain 300 KTS.' sometime later, after an intermediate leveloff at 15000 ft, I believe we were cleared to 'descend and maintain 8000 ft by bunts.' (I believe that was the name of the waypoint.) that last clearance was not qualified in any way. Out of about 12000 ft (first officer flying) we began slowing in anticipation of our descent below 10000 ft. At about 11500 ft and 250 KTS the controller asked our speed and sounded quite perturbed that we had slowed down. When I advised her that we were cleared below 10000 ft and were slowing to comply with that clearance she repeated a rather lengthy lecture as to why we should not have slowed so early and then cleared us to maintain 10000 ft and 300 KTS. Then, with a strong tailwind and only 13 mi from bunts, we were given 'cross bunts at and maintain 8000 ft.' we were given a frequency change and I didn't feel I had time to further discuss it with her. I would have liked to explain to her about the very strong tailwind we were experiencing and our desire to make the bunts restr that we were anticipating. I don't believe we were in violation of our descent speed clearance, unless there is a requirement to maintain last assigned speed until reaching 10000 ft when cleared to an altitude below 10000 ft. I have never known of such a requirement.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PHL APCH CTLR UPSET WITH MD80 CREW ABOUT SPD REDUCTION.
Narrative: DURING THE INITIAL PORTION OF DSCNT, WE WERE ASKED TO 'MAINTAIN 300 KTS.' SOMETIME LATER, AFTER AN INTERMEDIATE LEVELOFF AT 15000 FT, I BELIEVE WE WERE CLRED TO 'DSND AND MAINTAIN 8000 FT BY BUNTS.' (I BELIEVE THAT WAS THE NAME OF THE WAYPOINT.) THAT LAST CLRNC WAS NOT QUALIFIED IN ANY WAY. OUT OF ABOUT 12000 FT (FO FLYING) WE BEGAN SLOWING IN ANTICIPATION OF OUR DSCNT BELOW 10000 FT. AT ABOUT 11500 FT AND 250 KTS THE CTLR ASKED OUR SPD AND SOUNDED QUITE PERTURBED THAT WE HAD SLOWED DOWN. WHEN I ADVISED HER THAT WE WERE CLRED BELOW 10000 FT AND WERE SLOWING TO COMPLY WITH THAT CLRNC SHE REPEATED A RATHER LENGTHY LECTURE AS TO WHY WE SHOULD NOT HAVE SLOWED SO EARLY AND THEN CLRED US TO MAINTAIN 10000 FT AND 300 KTS. THEN, WITH A STRONG TAILWIND AND ONLY 13 MI FROM BUNTS, WE WERE GIVEN 'CROSS BUNTS AT AND MAINTAIN 8000 FT.' WE WERE GIVEN A FREQ CHANGE AND I DIDN'T FEEL I HAD TIME TO FURTHER DISCUSS IT WITH HER. I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO EXPLAIN TO HER ABOUT THE VERY STRONG TAILWIND WE WERE EXPERIENCING AND OUR DESIRE TO MAKE THE BUNTS RESTR THAT WE WERE ANTICIPATING. I DON'T BELIEVE WE WERE IN VIOLATION OF OUR DSCNT SPD CLRNC, UNLESS THERE IS A REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN LAST ASSIGNED SPD UNTIL REACHING 10000 FT WHEN CLRED TO AN ALT BELOW 10000 FT. I HAVE NEVER KNOWN OF SUCH A REQUIREMENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.