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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 622365 |
Time | |
Date | 200408 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : cle.airport |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 msl single value : 4000 |
Environment | |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : cle.tracon tower : skbo.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : cle.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 10000 |
ASRS Report | 622365 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground critical non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | vertical : 100 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | other physical facility procedure or policy : cle.tracon |
Airport | procedure or policy : cle.airport |
Narrative:
On initial contact with approach we advised we needed runway 24L for aircraft type and weight. Switched to final controller and he said expect runway 24R. We again advised needed runway 24L. He said expect extended downwind or holding for runway 24L. We said ok. 27 DME from airport we are 'cleared to join localizer runway 24L. However, you may expect to be pulled off approach or go around if tower cannot fit you in.' once again I say we need runway 24L. I do not expect intimidation by ATC into taking their runway choice. It is my job to make the safest decision and it is ATC's job to make it work. At assigned speed we crossed FAF and contacted tower, 120.9. Tower cleared us to land runway 24L. About that time air carrier Y was landing runway 24R. He was told to hold short runway 24L for landing traffic. At about 300 ft AGL tower cleared air carrier Y to cross runway 24L. Since he had been stopped for a while it took a few seconds to get rolling. There is no way tower should have crossed that aircraft. At about 100 ft AGL, and as air carrier Y was clearing runway 24L, tower said 'air carrier X, go around.' I said 'air carrier Y is clear, do you still need us to go around?' just in case there was something I did not see. Tower said, 'land.' there are 2 issues here. The clear evidence of intimidation by approach to get us to accept runway 24R, and the unsafe crossing of an aircraft in front of us to necessitate the pre-warned go around from approach control. I will not accept runway 24R/6L in an 800/900 series aircraft as GS intercept landing distance is 4983 ft. Since we are trained to follow the GS, that is the landing distance I will always use when calculating, if I can, use a requested runway. I spoke to ATC supervisor and he said that a controller will never ask you to hold or pull off approach for runway 24L. The mindset needs to be changed at cle ATC into not intimidating pilots into unsafe sits.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 PIC COMMENTS ON HIS ALLEGED PROBS OBTAINING HIS RWY OF REQUEST WITHOUT BEING INTIMIDATED BY APCH CTLR AND SUBSEQUENT SEPARATION PROBS WHEN LNDG RWY 24L AT CLE.
Narrative: ON INITIAL CONTACT WITH APCH WE ADVISED WE NEEDED RWY 24L FOR ACFT TYPE AND WT. SWITCHED TO FINAL CTLR AND HE SAID EXPECT RWY 24R. WE AGAIN ADVISED NEEDED RWY 24L. HE SAID EXPECT EXTENDED DOWNWIND OR HOLDING FOR RWY 24L. WE SAID OK. 27 DME FROM ARPT WE ARE 'CLRED TO JOIN LOC RWY 24L. HOWEVER, YOU MAY EXPECT TO BE PULLED OFF APCH OR GO AROUND IF TWR CANNOT FIT YOU IN.' ONCE AGAIN I SAY WE NEED RWY 24L. I DO NOT EXPECT INTIMIDATION BY ATC INTO TAKING THEIR RWY CHOICE. IT IS MY JOB TO MAKE THE SAFEST DECISION AND IT IS ATC'S JOB TO MAKE IT WORK. AT ASSIGNED SPD WE CROSSED FAF AND CONTACTED TWR, 120.9. TWR CLRED US TO LAND RWY 24L. ABOUT THAT TIME ACR Y WAS LNDG RWY 24R. HE WAS TOLD TO HOLD SHORT RWY 24L FOR LNDG TFC. AT ABOUT 300 FT AGL TWR CLRED ACR Y TO CROSS RWY 24L. SINCE HE HAD BEEN STOPPED FOR A WHILE IT TOOK A FEW SECONDS TO GET ROLLING. THERE IS NO WAY TWR SHOULD HAVE CROSSED THAT ACFT. AT ABOUT 100 FT AGL, AND AS ACR Y WAS CLRING RWY 24L, TWR SAID 'ACR X, GO AROUND.' I SAID 'ACR Y IS CLR, DO YOU STILL NEED US TO GO AROUND?' JUST IN CASE THERE WAS SOMETHING I DID NOT SEE. TWR SAID, 'LAND.' THERE ARE 2 ISSUES HERE. THE CLR EVIDENCE OF INTIMIDATION BY APCH TO GET US TO ACCEPT RWY 24R, AND THE UNSAFE XING OF AN ACFT IN FRONT OF US TO NECESSITATE THE PRE-WARNED GAR FROM APCH CTL. I WILL NOT ACCEPT RWY 24R/6L IN AN 800/900 SERIES ACFT AS GS INTERCEPT LNDG DISTANCE IS 4983 FT. SINCE WE ARE TRAINED TO FOLLOW THE GS, THAT IS THE LNDG DISTANCE I WILL ALWAYS USE WHEN CALCULATING, IF I CAN, USE A REQUESTED RWY. I SPOKE TO ATC SUPVR AND HE SAID THAT A CTLR WILL NEVER ASK YOU TO HOLD OR PULL OFF APCH FOR RWY 24L. THE MINDSET NEEDS TO BE CHANGED AT CLE ATC INTO NOT INTIMIDATING PLTS INTO UNSAFE SITS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.