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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 632560 |
Time | |
Date | 200410 |
Day | Fri |
Place | |
Locale Reference | intersection : cofax |
State Reference | PA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 25000 msl bound upper : 37000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A320 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise : enroute altitude change descent : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | arrival star : bunts |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
ASRS Report | 632560 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 270 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 1200 |
ASRS Report | 632332 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Chart Or Publication ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
While cruising at FL370, ZOB issued pilot's discretion FL290. This occurred approximately 190 mi from destination and well before normal VNAV profile. ZOB then issued cross cofax intersection at FL250. We were 25 mi west, and I requested relief and said unable to comply. Controller reluctantly offered relief from crossing restr, but was obviously annoyed. He stated we should have started down sooner. I replied the FL250/cofax isn't charted on the STAR, nor were we given verbal 'expect' instructions. An air carrier Y flight on frequency concurred. The controller disagreed and said he would look it up. There was no conflict or violation, however, there is a clear potential for conflict if the controller believes a restr exists. Also, I reviewed all NOTAMS before the flight, and didn't see any change to the arrival. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated that he was on the bunts 1 arrival into phl. He stated that they checked all NOTAMS and there was no information about a crossing restr at cofax intersection. The controller dropped the subject and nothing else was said to the flight crew.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN A320 FLT CREW IS TOLD TO CROSS COFAX INTXN AT FL250 AS IT IS PUBLISHED ON THE BUNTS 1 ARR INTO PHL. THE FLT CREW SAID THAT THEY WERE UNABLE AND IT WAS NOT ON THE ARR.
Narrative: WHILE CRUISING AT FL370, ZOB ISSUED PLT'S DISCRETION FL290. THIS OCCURRED APPROX 190 MI FROM DEST AND WELL BEFORE NORMAL VNAV PROFILE. ZOB THEN ISSUED CROSS COFAX INTXN AT FL250. WE WERE 25 MI W, AND I REQUESTED RELIEF AND SAID UNABLE TO COMPLY. CTLR RELUCTANTLY OFFERED RELIEF FROM XING RESTR, BUT WAS OBVIOUSLY ANNOYED. HE STATED WE SHOULD HAVE STARTED DOWN SOONER. I REPLIED THE FL250/COFAX ISN'T CHARTED ON THE STAR, NOR WERE WE GIVEN VERBAL 'EXPECT' INSTRUCTIONS. AN ACR Y FLT ON FREQ CONCURRED. THE CTLR DISAGREED AND SAID HE WOULD LOOK IT UP. THERE WAS NO CONFLICT OR VIOLATION, HOWEVER, THERE IS A CLEAR POTENTIAL FOR CONFLICT IF THE CTLR BELIEVES A RESTR EXISTS. ALSO, I REVIEWED ALL NOTAMS BEFORE THE FLT, AND DIDN'T SEE ANY CHANGE TO THE ARR. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED THAT HE WAS ON THE BUNTS 1 ARR INTO PHL. HE STATED THAT THEY CHKED ALL NOTAMS AND THERE WAS NO INFO ABOUT A XING RESTR AT COFAX INTXN. THE CTLR DROPPED THE SUBJECT AND NOTHING ELSE WAS SAID TO THE FLT CREW.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.