<< >> NASA ASRS Report 715637, October 2006

B737-900 first officer feels lax tower should not have suggested aircraft takeoff at night when the runway lights fail.

Attributes
ACN	715637
Time
Date	200610
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lax.airport
State Reference	CA
Altitude	agl single value : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737-900
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground : holding
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tower : lax.tower
Make Model Name	Saab-Scania Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	landing : roll
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time type : 4500
ASRS Report	715637
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance Airport Environmental Factor Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	Airport

Narrative:

Cleared into position runway 24L lax after landing saab-340. Saab crew reports runway lights OTS and as we line up on centerline we see all runway lights off. We remain in position for a few mins and clear runway at E8 and then taxi taxiway east to get back in line. ATC says it will be a few mins while they work the problem and it is ok to shut down. There is a long line of aircraft on final for runway 24R and the south complex. While waiting ATC begins to ask aircraft if they can depart with no runway lights. Several aircraft accept clearance and depart. We refuse citing operations specifications. I felt that ATC's tone in the question was encouraging the takeoff. After a short delay we departed runway 24R. Not allow takeoffs on a runway with inoperative runway lights at night. This should especially be prohibited at a high threat airport for runway incursions such as lax.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B737-900 FO FEELS LAX TWR SHOULD NOT HAVE SUGGESTED ACFT TKOF AT NIGHT WHEN THE RWY LIGHTS FAIL.

Narrative: CLRED INTO POS RWY 24L LAX AFTER LNDG SAAB-340. SAAB CREW RPTS RWY LIGHTS OTS AND AS WE LINE UP ON CTRLINE WE SEE ALL RWY LIGHTS OFF. WE REMAIN IN POS FOR A FEW MINS AND CLR RWY AT E8 AND THEN TAXI TXWY E TO GET BACK IN LINE. ATC SAYS IT WILL BE A FEW MINS WHILE THEY WORK THE PROB AND IT IS OK TO SHUT DOWN. THERE IS A LONG LINE OF ACFT ON FINAL FOR RWY 24R AND THE S COMPLEX. WHILE WAITING ATC BEGINS TO ASK ACFT IF THEY CAN DEPART WITH NO RWY LIGHTS. SEVERAL ACFT ACCEPT CLRNC AND DEPART. WE REFUSE CITING OPS SPECS. I FELT THAT ATC'S TONE IN THE QUESTION WAS ENCOURAGING THE TKOF. AFTER A SHORT DELAY WE DEPARTED RWY 24R. NOT ALLOW TKOFS ON A RWY WITH INOP RWY LIGHTS AT NIGHT. THIS SHOULD ESPECIALLY BE PROHIBITED AT A HIGH THREAT ARPT FOR RWY INCURSIONS SUCH AS LAX.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.