37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 85837 |
Time | |
Date | 198804 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1800 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 8000 |
ASRS Report | 85837 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : approach |
Qualification | controller : radar |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 200 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
At 16 NM on the ILS DME of lax, lax approach control cleared flight to 1900', heading 230 degrees, to intercept the lax 25L localizer. While established inbound on the runway 25L lax localizer at 2000' and 12 NM, a red and white small aircraft passed approximately 200' directly beneath our nose on a northerly heading. I think the problem was caused by approach controller clearing us to an altitude that would cause us to exit the floor of the TCA (while still on an IFR clearance). I called approach control after we landed. Approach controller supervisor stated that normally they do not issue clrncs for air carrier to penetrate the TCA floor. He would check with the controller to see why this particular clearance was issued. If our descent was more rapid a midair collision could have resulted in a legal situation where the VFR small aircraft pilot was legal to fly beneath the floor of the TCA and, had I not scanned the horizon when I did, our air carrier flight would have been legal and busy complying with the instructions received. This is a trap. Tell approach controls not to vector or clear aircraft for apches where the aircraft will egress and ingress the TCA all on the same approach. Or, make it mandatory for approach control to tell aircraft if they will be exiting the TCA for a short time while being vectored for an approach.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CLOSE PROX ACR-LGT GA-SMA EAST OF LAX AT BASE OF TCA.
Narrative: AT 16 NM ON THE ILS DME OF LAX, LAX APCH CTL CLRED FLT TO 1900', HDG 230 DEGS, TO INTERCEPT THE LAX 25L LOC. WHILE ESTABLISHED INBND ON THE RWY 25L LAX LOC AT 2000' AND 12 NM, A RED AND WHITE SMA PASSED APPROX 200' DIRECTLY BENEATH OUR NOSE ON A NORTHERLY HDG. I THINK THE PROB WAS CAUSED BY APCH CTLR CLRING US TO AN ALT THAT WOULD CAUSE US TO EXIT THE FLOOR OF THE TCA (WHILE STILL ON AN IFR CLRNC). I CALLED APCH CTL AFTER WE LANDED. APCH CTLR SUPVR STATED THAT NORMALLY THEY DO NOT ISSUE CLRNCS FOR ACR TO PENETRATE THE TCA FLOOR. HE WOULD CHK WITH THE CTLR TO SEE WHY THIS PARTICULAR CLRNC WAS ISSUED. IF OUR DSCNT WAS MORE RAPID A MIDAIR COLLISION COULD HAVE RESULTED IN A LEGAL SITUATION WHERE THE VFR SMA PLT WAS LEGAL TO FLY BENEATH THE FLOOR OF THE TCA AND, HAD I NOT SCANNED THE HORIZON WHEN I DID, OUR ACR FLT WOULD HAVE BEEN LEGAL AND BUSY COMPLYING WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS RECEIVED. THIS IS A TRAP. TELL APCH CTLS NOT TO VECTOR OR CLR ACFT FOR APCHES WHERE THE ACFT WILL EGRESS AND INGRESS THE TCA ALL ON THE SAME APCH. OR, MAKE IT MANDATORY FOR APCH CTL TO TELL ACFT IF THEY WILL BE EXITING THE TCA FOR A SHORT TIME WHILE BEING VECTORED FOR AN APCH.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.