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Air carrier medium large transport altitude deviation undershot altitude crossing restriction on STAR into las.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 87113 |
| Time | |
| Date | 198805 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : bld airport : lax |
| State Reference | NV |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 15000 msl bound upper : 16500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival star : star |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 175 flight time total : 13100 flight time type : 2675 |
| ASRS Report | 87113 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 225 flight time total : 8200 flight time type : 1200 |
| ASRS Report | 87429 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Captain on radio, first officer flying. FL270 cleared to cross fuzzy intersection at 15000'. Captain read back fuzzy at 15000'. First officer set and armed 15000, but 'heard' ashby at 15000'... With further reinforcement from STAR chart ('expect to cross at 15000') and descent data from pms. First officer planned and executed a descent to cross ashby at 15000'. Captain left frequency to get ATIS and call company inbound. Returning to frequency, ATC (different controller) said that they showed us past fuzzy...did we concur? Captain concurred and realized we had been high at suggestions: can leave frequency but don't leave airplane...must still monitor progress. Hear what is said. Don't assume anything or 'hear what you want to hear'. Don't believe that it can never happen to you. Also suggest that if on a 'fuzzy-2' arrival, the primary planned descent point should be 'fuzzy' not 'ashby' or anything else. We should not have been high at fuzzy...but we were. Supplemental information from acn #87429: we reviewed the las fuzzy. Two arrival before departing sfo and I programmed the performance management system to cross ashby intersection at 15000' as shown on the arrival chart.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR MLG ALT DEVIATION UNDERSHOT ALT CROSSING RESTRICTION ON STAR INTO LAS.
Narrative: CAPT ON RADIO, F/O FLYING. FL270 CLRED TO CROSS FUZZY INTERSECTION AT 15000'. CAPT READ BACK FUZZY AT 15000'. F/O SET AND ARMED 15000, BUT 'HEARD' ASHBY AT 15000'... WITH FURTHER REINFORCEMENT FROM STAR CHART ('EXPECT TO CROSS AT 15000') AND DESCENT DATA FROM PMS. F/O PLANNED AND EXECUTED A DESCENT TO CROSS ASHBY AT 15000'. CAPT LEFT FREQ TO GET ATIS AND CALL COMPANY INBOUND. RETURNING TO FREQ, ATC (DIFFERENT CTLR) SAID THAT THEY SHOWED US PAST FUZZY...DID WE CONCUR? CAPT CONCURRED AND REALIZED WE HAD BEEN HIGH AT SUGGESTIONS: CAN LEAVE FREQ BUT DON'T LEAVE AIRPLANE...MUST STILL MONITOR PROGRESS. HEAR WHAT IS SAID. DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING OR 'HEAR WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR'. DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT CAN NEVER HAPPEN TO YOU. ALSO SUGGEST THAT IF ON A 'FUZZY-2' ARRIVAL, THE PRIMARY PLANNED DESCENT POINT SHOULD BE 'FUZZY' NOT 'ASHBY' OR ANYTHING ELSE. WE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN HIGH AT FUZZY...BUT WE WERE. SUPPLEMENTAL INFORMATION FROM ACN #87429: WE REVIEWED THE LAS FUZZY. TWO ARRIVAL BEFORE DEPARTING SFO AND I PROGRAMMED THE PERFORMANCE MGMNT SYSTEM TO CROSS ASHBY INTERSECTION AT 15000' AS SHOWN ON THE ARRIVAL CHART.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.