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Flight crew of medium large transport advised by ZNY controller they had no choice but to hold at 11000' in rime icing condition.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 135582 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199001 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : lga |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 11000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zny tracon : n90 |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
| Route In Use | arrival other enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 165 flight time total : 15990 flight time type : 1620 |
| ASRS Report | 135582 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
On a milton 5 arrival into lga, our flight was instructed to slow to 250 KTS and descend to 11000' by ZNY. The controller told us that moderate rime ice had been reported at 11000'. We asked how long he expected to keep us at 11000', and he rep;lied 40-60 mi. We stated we had rather not fly in known icing conditions for that long, and the controller said 'you have no choice.' when I told him we did have some choices, he said he would clear our flight to lizzi intersection and put us in a holding pattern. We descended to 11000', and approximately 5 mins later we did encounter moderate rime ice. By this time we had switched to ny approach, who descended us to 7000' and out of the icing conditions. My biggest problem is the attitude of ZNY--'you do what I say no matter how it affects the safety of the flight.' is ZNY so inflexible that routes or altitudes can't be changed, even when a hazard to flight exists?
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLT CREW OF MLG ADVISED BY ZNY CTLR THEY HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO HOLD AT 11000' IN RIME ICING CONDITION.
Narrative: ON A MILTON 5 ARR INTO LGA, OUR FLT WAS INSTRUCTED TO SLOW TO 250 KTS AND DSND TO 11000' BY ZNY. THE CTLR TOLD US THAT MODERATE RIME ICE HAD BEEN RPTED AT 11000'. WE ASKED HOW LONG HE EXPECTED TO KEEP US AT 11000', AND HE REP;LIED 40-60 MI. WE STATED WE HAD RATHER NOT FLY IN KNOWN ICING CONDITIONS FOR THAT LONG, AND THE CTLR SAID 'YOU HAVE NO CHOICE.' WHEN I TOLD HIM WE DID HAVE SOME CHOICES, HE SAID HE WOULD CLR OUR FLT TO LIZZI INTXN AND PUT US IN A HOLDING PATTERN. WE DSNDED TO 11000', AND APPROX 5 MINS LATER WE DID ENCOUNTER MODERATE RIME ICE. BY THIS TIME WE HAD SWITCHED TO NY APCH, WHO DSNDED US TO 7000' AND OUT OF THE ICING CONDITIONS. MY BIGGEST PROB IS THE ATTITUDE OF ZNY--'YOU DO WHAT I SAY NO MATTER HOW IT AFFECTS THE SAFETY OF THE FLT.' IS ZNY SO INFLEXIBLE THAT ROUTES OR ALTS CAN'T BE CHANGED, EVEN WHEN A HAZARD TO FLT EXISTS?
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.