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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 318571 |
Time | |
Date | 199510 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : vny |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 4500 msl bound upper : 6000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Marginal |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : bur tower : vny |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air taxi |
Make Model Name | PA-31 Navajo Chieftan/Mojave/Navajo T1020 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 4500 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 318571 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 400 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
We were with socal approach and he was very busy. Our handoff from joshua was late so it was obvious that socal would be busy. Socal left us high for the approach after vectoring us onto the localizer, I think 6000 ft at 9 DME which should be GS altitude 4900 ft. They then cleared us for the approach. We immediately began the approach. Vny was reporting 3 mi visibility, our in-flight visibility was about 1 1/2 mi. The sun was low and from our angle considering sunlight was 1 mi. Socal was late handing us off to tower. We were 8.0 DME, FAF is 7.3. Tower got on and said TA your immediate vicinity. Then the navajo got on and said he had us in sight immediately above him. When we got on the ground my copilot and I both talked to him. He was VFR on localizer and GS in limited visibility and asked why he did not just get an IFR clearance. He stated that his boss would have someone else fly the grand canyon runs if he incurred too many delays. The field saying the visibility is 3 mi he thinks gives him the right to not go IFR is ridiculous. The visibility was poor enough that I never saw him and could have descended right on top of him. The attitude he had was a bit cavalier. These guys are low time and will do anything to hang onto a job and build time. The grand canyon flts out of vny are numerous and now I find are a danger. I would hope if they continue to do their own version of special VFR without a clearance that they stay off the localizer so those of us that are legal can get down safely. I plan to talk to the local FSDO about this occurrence.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LTT HAS NMAC WITH SMT ON APCH.
Narrative: WE WERE WITH SOCAL APCH AND HE WAS VERY BUSY. OUR HDOF FROM JOSHUA WAS LATE SO IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT SOCAL WOULD BE BUSY. SOCAL LEFT US HIGH FOR THE APCH AFTER VECTORING US ONTO THE LOC, I THINK 6000 FT AT 9 DME WHICH SHOULD BE GS ALT 4900 FT. THEY THEN CLRED US FOR THE APCH. WE IMMEDIATELY BEGAN THE APCH. VNY WAS RPTING 3 MI VISIBILITY, OUR INFLT VISIBILITY WAS ABOUT 1 1/2 MI. THE SUN WAS LOW AND FROM OUR ANGLE CONSIDERING SUNLIGHT WAS 1 MI. SOCAL WAS LATE HANDING US OFF TO TWR. WE WERE 8.0 DME, FAF IS 7.3. TWR GOT ON AND SAID TA YOUR IMMEDIATE VICINITY. THEN THE NAVAJO GOT ON AND SAID HE HAD US IN SIGHT IMMEDIATELY ABOVE HIM. WHEN WE GOT ON THE GND MY COPLT AND I BOTH TALKED TO HIM. HE WAS VFR ON LOC AND GS IN LIMITED VISIBILITY AND ASKED WHY HE DID NOT JUST GET AN IFR CLRNC. HE STATED THAT HIS BOSS WOULD HAVE SOMEONE ELSE FLY THE GRAND CANYON RUNS IF HE INCURRED TOO MANY DELAYS. THE FIELD SAYING THE VISIBILITY IS 3 MI HE THINKS GIVES HIM THE RIGHT TO NOT GO IFR IS RIDICULOUS. THE VISIBILITY WAS POOR ENOUGH THAT I NEVER SAW HIM AND COULD HAVE DSNDED RIGHT ON TOP OF HIM. THE ATTITUDE HE HAD WAS A BIT CAVALIER. THESE GUYS ARE LOW TIME AND WILL DO ANYTHING TO HANG ONTO A JOB AND BUILD TIME. THE GRAND CANYON FLTS OUT OF VNY ARE NUMEROUS AND NOW I FIND ARE A DANGER. I WOULD HOPE IF THEY CONTINUE TO DO THEIR OWN VERSION OF SPECIAL VFR WITHOUT A CLRNC THAT THEY STAY OFF THE LOC SO THOSE OF US THAT ARE LEGAL CAN GET DOWN SAFELY. I PLAN TO TALK TO THE LCL FSDO ABOUT THIS OCCURRENCE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.