Narrative:

It was dusk on a relatively clear night when we departed. Mia ground cleared us to taxi from the gates on taxiway P to runway 9L. We were told to follow a B757 on taxiway M before proceeding to runway 9L. We stopped on taxiway P holding short of taxiway M waiting for the B757. The B757 then cut across the pad and taxied into position on runway 12. I asked the first officer to check the takeoff weights for runway 12 and he answered, unable. I then looked at the weights and noticed we could takeoff with the APU providing bleed air. I then taxied slowly to runway 9L and the tower told us to taxi into position and hold on runway 12. We told them that we were unable to use runway 12 (we did not have the APU running) and that we needed runway 9L. The tower then told us to make a hard left turn, and to taxi into the pad to allow room for another air carrier airplane to pass to takeoff on runway 12. We taxied back to the area where txwys P and M intersected and awaited instructions. The tower then asked us to taxi up to the hold short line for runway 9L. We taxied slowly and we came upon the amber hold short lights for runway 9L. These lights were not observed when we crossed this area the first time and the hold short lines are barely visible. This is when we realized that we had taxied past the hold short line the first time. This line is set back about 500 ft from the departure ends of both runways 9L and 12 and we did not come close to either runway. We were then cleared for takeoff and we departed. This was the second time in the past 4 yrs that I have flown out of mia and both times were at night. The taxi lines and hold short lines are barely visible and the taxi light was on at all times. The amber hold short lights were visible the second time and we do not believe that they were on during our first taxi into the pad. I feel that mia's ground markings need to be better especially when there is an irregular hold short area for a set of runways. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter states the aircraft was a B737 and he did not discuss this situation with either tower or company. He states that to this day he does not know where the hold line is located. Even when they saw the amber light indicator they could not see the actual hold line. The area is a broad section of concrete and quite a mix of taxiway lights. Reporter says that some airport diagrams have the hold lines marked on the charts and he suggests that would be extremely helpful in this case.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B737 FLC UNABLE TO SEE HOLD LINE TAXIES BEYOND BUT DOES NOT ENTER RWY. OTHER TFC DEPARTING AN INTERSECTING RWY SO ACFT TURNED BACK BUT STILL UNABLE TO SIGHT THE HOLD LINE.

Narrative: IT WAS DUSK ON A RELATIVELY CLR NIGHT WHEN WE DEPARTED. MIA GND CLRED US TO TAXI FROM THE GATES ON TXWY P TO RWY 9L. WE WERE TOLD TO FOLLOW A B757 ON TXWY M BEFORE PROCEEDING TO RWY 9L. WE STOPPED ON TXWY P HOLDING SHORT OF TXWY M WAITING FOR THE B757. THE B757 THEN CUT ACROSS THE PAD AND TAXIED INTO POS ON RWY 12. I ASKED THE FO TO CHK THE TKOF WTS FOR RWY 12 AND HE ANSWERED, UNABLE. I THEN LOOKED AT THE WTS AND NOTICED WE COULD TKOF WITH THE APU PROVIDING BLEED AIR. I THEN TAXIED SLOWLY TO RWY 9L AND THE TWR TOLD US TO TAXI INTO POS AND HOLD ON RWY 12. WE TOLD THEM THAT WE WERE UNABLE TO USE RWY 12 (WE DID NOT HAVE THE APU RUNNING) AND THAT WE NEEDED RWY 9L. THE TWR THEN TOLD US TO MAKE A HARD L TURN, AND TO TAXI INTO THE PAD TO ALLOW ROOM FOR ANOTHER ACR AIRPLANE TO PASS TO TKOF ON RWY 12. WE TAXIED BACK TO THE AREA WHERE TXWYS P AND M INTERSECTED AND AWAITED INSTRUCTIONS. THE TWR THEN ASKED US TO TAXI UP TO THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 9L. WE TAXIED SLOWLY AND WE CAME UPON THE AMBER HOLD SHORT LIGHTS FOR RWY 9L. THESE LIGHTS WERE NOT OBSERVED WHEN WE CROSSED THIS AREA THE FIRST TIME AND THE HOLD SHORT LINES ARE BARELY VISIBLE. THIS IS WHEN WE REALIZED THAT WE HAD TAXIED PAST THE HOLD SHORT LINE THE FIRST TIME. THIS LINE IS SET BACK ABOUT 500 FT FROM THE DEP ENDS OF BOTH RWYS 9L AND 12 AND WE DID NOT COME CLOSE TO EITHER RWY. WE WERE THEN CLRED FOR TKOF AND WE DEPARTED. THIS WAS THE SECOND TIME IN THE PAST 4 YRS THAT I HAVE FLOWN OUT OF MIA AND BOTH TIMES WERE AT NIGHT. THE TAXI LINES AND HOLD SHORT LINES ARE BARELY VISIBLE AND THE TAXI LIGHT WAS ON AT ALL TIMES. THE AMBER HOLD SHORT LIGHTS WERE VISIBLE THE SECOND TIME AND WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE ON DURING OUR FIRST TAXI INTO THE PAD. I FEEL THAT MIA'S GND MARKINGS NEED TO BE BETTER ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS AN IRREGULAR HOLD SHORT AREA FOR A SET OF RWYS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATES THE ACFT WAS A B737 AND HE DID NOT DISCUSS THIS SIT WITH EITHER TWR OR COMPANY. HE STATES THAT TO THIS DAY HE DOES NOT KNOW WHERE THE HOLD LINE IS LOCATED. EVEN WHEN THEY SAW THE AMBER LIGHT INDICATOR THEY COULD NOT SEE THE ACTUAL HOLD LINE. THE AREA IS A BROAD SECTION OF CONCRETE AND QUITE A MIX OF TXWY LIGHTS. RPTR SAYS THAT SOME ARPT DIAGRAMS HAVE THE HOLD LINES MARKED ON THE CHARTS AND HE SUGGESTS THAT WOULD BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL IN THIS CASE.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.