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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 368140 |
Time | |
Date | 199704 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : guc |
State Reference | CO |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdv |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground : holding |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Skyhawk 172/Cutlass 172 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : go around other |
Flight Plan | None |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | controller military : 4 controller radar : 2 flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 6010 flight time type : 2600 |
ASRS Report | 368140 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air taxi |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 2800 flight time type : 910 |
ASRS Report | 367343 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were holding short of runway. The cessna called overhead airport entering right downwind runway 6. We got released by center to takeoff IFR. I began to take the runway for departure and observed the cessna turning downwind to base. Being a former ATC'er I figured we had plenty of room to depart with a rolling takeoff. We lined up with centerline of runway and at that time the cessna was on base leg. We began to roll on our takeoff and the cessna called final leg on CTAF. As we were rolling on our takeoff, the cessna called go around due to traffic. We rotated and climbed out with no problem. The cessna pilot stated on CTAF we didn't give him any room to land. No corrective action was necessary on my part, but the cessna made a go around and landing the next time around. In speaking with the cessna pilot later, I perceived the cessna pilot had limited experience with wake turbulence sits and congested traffic patterns. This lack of experience caused the cessna pilot to make an unneeded go around and cause a more dangerous situation than the perceived problem originally. I feel judgement and aircraft performance knowledge or their lack of, caused this situation. I think I learned -- don't assume the other guy is thinking the same thing you are thinking. Supplemental information from acn 367343: the C172 turning from base to final (plenty of room!). We departed and the pilot of the C172 announced he would be going around and 'thanks a lot.' he then called us jerks for departing. When we landed in denver, the pilot of the C172 had already contacted denver operations and our corporate offices that we had 'cut him off.'
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ATX LTT ELECTED TO DEPART RWY 6 WHEN A C172 WAS TURNING FINAL. C172 ELECTED TO GAR AND WAS VERY UPSET. ATX CAPT FELT THERE WAS PLENTY OF ROOM AND WAS NOT CUTTING OFF THE C172.
Narrative: WE WERE HOLDING SHORT OF RWY. THE CESSNA CALLED OVERHEAD ARPT ENTERING R DOWNWIND RWY 6. WE GOT RELEASED BY CTR TO TKOF IFR. I BEGAN TO TAKE THE RWY FOR DEP AND OBSERVED THE CESSNA TURNING DOWNWIND TO BASE. BEING A FORMER ATC'ER I FIGURED WE HAD PLENTY OF ROOM TO DEPART WITH A ROLLING TKOF. WE LINED UP WITH CTRLINE OF RWY AND AT THAT TIME THE CESSNA WAS ON BASE LEG. WE BEGAN TO ROLL ON OUR TKOF AND THE CESSNA CALLED FINAL LEG ON CTAF. AS WE WERE ROLLING ON OUR TKOF, THE CESSNA CALLED GAR DUE TO TFC. WE ROTATED AND CLBED OUT WITH NO PROB. THE CESSNA PLT STATED ON CTAF WE DIDN'T GIVE HIM ANY ROOM TO LAND. NO CORRECTIVE ACTION WAS NECESSARY ON MY PART, BUT THE CESSNA MADE A GAR AND LNDG THE NEXT TIME AROUND. IN SPEAKING WITH THE CESSNA PLT LATER, I PERCEIVED THE CESSNA PLT HAD LIMITED EXPERIENCE WITH WAKE TURB SITS AND CONGESTED TFC PATTERNS. THIS LACK OF EXPERIENCE CAUSED THE CESSNA PLT TO MAKE AN UNNEEDED GAR AND CAUSE A MORE DANGEROUS SIT THAN THE PERCEIVED PROB ORIGINALLY. I FEEL JUDGEMENT AND ACFT PERFORMANCE KNOWLEDGE OR THEIR LACK OF, CAUSED THIS SIT. I THINK I LEARNED -- DON'T ASSUME THE OTHER GUY IS THINKING THE SAME THING YOU ARE THINKING. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 367343: THE C172 TURNING FROM BASE TO FINAL (PLENTY OF ROOM!). WE DEPARTED AND THE PLT OF THE C172 ANNOUNCED HE WOULD BE GOING AROUND AND 'THANKS A LOT.' HE THEN CALLED US JERKS FOR DEPARTING. WHEN WE LANDED IN DENVER, THE PLT OF THE C172 HAD ALREADY CONTACTED DENVER OPS AND OUR CORPORATE OFFICES THAT WE HAD 'CUT HIM OFF.'
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.