Narrative:

Departure ATIS was visibility 10 SM, clouds 3700 ft/25000 ft, altimeter 30.35, ILS runway 4 approach in use, localizer 4 departing runway 31. My flight pushed off gate and called lga ground control for taxi. We were instructed 'taxi to runway 4 via txwys a, east, B.' ATIS was advising runway 31 departures, but there was a change taking place, and runway 4 was now going to be used for departures, as ground control advised us. We were given no clearance to hold short of runway 4 at the runway 4 ILS hold line, and since WX was VFR we held short of runway 4 at the runway 4 'B4' hold line. There were also no instructions on ATIS to hold short of runway 4 at the ILS hold line since ATIS was saying departures were on runway 31, not runway 4. As we held short of runway 4 short of the B4 hold line but beyond the ILS hold line, lga tower advised a turboprop on short final to landing at runway 4 to go around. Then the lga tower advised us we were beyond the runway 4 ILS hold line and that we should taxi onto runway 4 and make a right turn at taxiway C4 followed by a right turn onto taxiway B and hold short of runway 4 at the ILS hold line -- so that is what we did. Later, upon arriving at our destination, I called lga tower and asked for the supervisor. I briefed him on our situation on taxi out at lga, and asked him if he considered the situation a problem. He said he was the supervisor on duty at the time we taxied out, and he said the ground controller had erred in not telling us to hold short of runway 4 at the ILS hold line. It was absolutely not our fault no action was being taken and that once the ground controller noticed that we were short of runway 4 but beyond the runway 4 ILS hold line, that their local policy dictated that the landing turboprop be given a go around, since there could be a wingtip clearance problem with a widebody transport landing on runway 4 and a widebody transport holding short of runway 4 but holding beyond the ILS hold line. Neither of our aircraft were widebody transport's. If lga ground has this policy, why not print on the airport chart to hold short of the ILS hold line at runway 4 when landing runway 4 VFR or IFR WX. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: tower personnel report that the ILS hold line is to be adhered to only when runway 4 is used for arriving and departing traffic, regardless of WX conditions. This requirement is due to wingtip clearance limits for all aircraft types, not just widebody transport. When traffic is departing runway 4 and landing any other runway, the 'B4' hold line becomes the stop point for all departing traffic. The tower personnel state that pilots are notified as to which hold line is active via ATIS recording.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: MD80 FLC QUESTIONS HOLD SHORT POS POLICY AT LGA.

Narrative: DEP ATIS WAS VISIBILITY 10 SM, CLOUDS 3700 FT/25000 FT, ALTIMETER 30.35, ILS RWY 4 APCH IN USE, LOC 4 DEPARTING RWY 31. MY FLT PUSHED OFF GATE AND CALLED LGA GND CTL FOR TAXI. WE WERE INSTRUCTED 'TAXI TO RWY 4 VIA TXWYS A, E, B.' ATIS WAS ADVISING RWY 31 DEPS, BUT THERE WAS A CHANGE TAKING PLACE, AND RWY 4 WAS NOW GOING TO BE USED FOR DEPS, AS GND CTL ADVISED US. WE WERE GIVEN NO CLRNC TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 4 AT THE RWY 4 ILS HOLD LINE, AND SINCE WX WAS VFR WE HELD SHORT OF RWY 4 AT THE RWY 4 'B4' HOLD LINE. THERE WERE ALSO NO INSTRUCTIONS ON ATIS TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 4 AT THE ILS HOLD LINE SINCE ATIS WAS SAYING DEPS WERE ON RWY 31, NOT RWY 4. AS WE HELD SHORT OF RWY 4 SHORT OF THE B4 HOLD LINE BUT BEYOND THE ILS HOLD LINE, LGA TWR ADVISED A TURBOPROP ON SHORT FINAL TO LNDG AT RWY 4 TO GO AROUND. THEN THE LGA TWR ADVISED US WE WERE BEYOND THE RWY 4 ILS HOLD LINE AND THAT WE SHOULD TAXI ONTO RWY 4 AND MAKE A R TURN AT TXWY C4 FOLLOWED BY A R TURN ONTO TXWY B AND HOLD SHORT OF RWY 4 AT THE ILS HOLD LINE -- SO THAT IS WHAT WE DID. LATER, UPON ARRIVING AT OUR DEST, I CALLED LGA TWR AND ASKED FOR THE SUPVR. I BRIEFED HIM ON OUR SIT ON TAXI OUT AT LGA, AND ASKED HIM IF HE CONSIDERED THE SIT A PROB. HE SAID HE WAS THE SUPVR ON DUTY AT THE TIME WE TAXIED OUT, AND HE SAID THE GND CTLR HAD ERRED IN NOT TELLING US TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 4 AT THE ILS HOLD LINE. IT WAS ABSOLUTELY NOT OUR FAULT NO ACTION WAS BEING TAKEN AND THAT ONCE THE GND CTLR NOTICED THAT WE WERE SHORT OF RWY 4 BUT BEYOND THE RWY 4 ILS HOLD LINE, THAT THEIR LCL POLICY DICTATED THAT THE LNDG TURBOPROP BE GIVEN A GAR, SINCE THERE COULD BE A WINGTIP CLRNC PROB WITH A WDB LNDG ON RWY 4 AND A WDB HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 4 BUT HOLDING BEYOND THE ILS HOLD LINE. NEITHER OF OUR ACFT WERE WDB'S. IF LGA GND HAS THIS POLICY, WHY NOT PRINT ON THE ARPT CHART TO HOLD SHORT OF THE ILS HOLD LINE AT RWY 4 WHEN LNDG RWY 4 VFR OR IFR WX. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: TWR PERSONNEL RPT THAT THE ILS HOLD LINE IS TO BE ADHERED TO ONLY WHEN RWY 4 IS USED FOR ARRIVING AND DEPARTING TFC, REGARDLESS OF WX CONDITIONS. THIS REQUIREMENT IS DUE TO WINGTIP CLRNC LIMITS FOR ALL ACFT TYPES, NOT JUST WDB. WHEN TFC IS DEPARTING RWY 4 AND LNDG ANY OTHER RWY, THE 'B4' HOLD LINE BECOMES THE STOP POINT FOR ALL DEPARTING TFC. THE TWR PERSONNEL STATE THAT PLTS ARE NOTIFIED AS TO WHICH HOLD LINE IS ACTIVE VIA ATIS RECORDING.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.