Air carrier flight crew taxi into takeoff position and hold, then question if clearance was to hold ...

Attributes
ACN	498331
Time
Date	200101
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	airport : dtw.airport
State Reference	MI
Altitude	agl single value : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground : taxi ground : position and hold ground : holding
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument
Experience	flight time total : 3876
ASRS Report	498331
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi pilot : multi engine
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 28 flight time total : 1400 flight time type : 28
ASRS Report	498510
Events
Anomaly	incursion : runway non adherence : published procedure
Independent Detector	other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	controller : issued advisory other
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance

Narrative:

Taxiing to runway 21C, we were behind a B757 for takeoff. The controller asked if we wanted the time delay or distance for wake turbulence. We responded that we prefer the 2 mins, but we would accept the distance. The controller responded that it would be no problem for the time because we were the only aircraft waiting to depart. During this time, there may have been a miscom of 'position and hold' or an anticipation of position and hold from the flight crew. A few seconds later, we were cleared for takeoff after being 'in position and holding.' the question of whether or not we were given position and hold came up later on because neither of us could remember hearing the exact words 'position and hold.' we both remember 'hold.' contributing factors to the situation could have been a green first officer and a high minimums captain that was just taken off his green status. The first officer was not understanding what ATC was asking about wake turbulence and the captain was taxiing the aircraft trying to communicate to ATC his intentions about the wake turbulence separation as well as trying to communication to the first officer what was going on. Situation ally, both the crw and ATC were of the understanding that there was no traffic on final and another aircraft was cleared to taxi across the runway downfield of our position. No other aircraft were delayed or inconvenienced by this action that we are aware of, and we may have received 'position and hold,' but during all the other communications that were taking place at that time, we just do not remember receiving that exact wording, 'position and hold.' the only suggestion I could offer is that a high minimums captain has to have 100 hours PIC and green status is 75 hours in the aircraft. Maybe 'green' should be extended to the captain is off high minimums, to give him/her that much more experience with an experienced first officer to help reduce the workload of crew during these critical times of aircraft movement.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: ACR FLC TAXI INTO TKOF POS AND HOLD, THEN QUESTION IF CLRNC WAS TO HOLD SHORT. NO ADVERSE COMMENT MADE BY ATC. CAPT QUESTIONS COMPANY POLICY FOR 'GREEN' TO FULL CAPT.

Narrative: TAXIING TO RWY 21C, WE WERE BEHIND A B757 FOR TKOF. THE CTLR ASKED IF WE WANTED THE TIME DELAY OR DISTANCE FOR WAKE TURB. WE RESPONDED THAT WE PREFER THE 2 MINS, BUT WE WOULD ACCEPT THE DISTANCE. THE CTLR RESPONDED THAT IT WOULD BE NO PROB FOR THE TIME BECAUSE WE WERE THE ONLY ACFT WAITING TO DEPART. DURING THIS TIME, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A MISCOM OF 'POS AND HOLD' OR AN ANTICIPATION OF POS AND HOLD FROM THE FLC. A FEW SECONDS LATER, WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF AFTER BEING 'IN POS AND HOLDING.' THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT WE WERE GIVEN POS AND HOLD CAME UP LATER ON BECAUSE NEITHER OF US COULD REMEMBER HEARING THE EXACT WORDS 'POS AND HOLD.' WE BOTH REMEMBER 'HOLD.' CONTRIBUTING FACTORS TO THE SIT COULD HAVE BEEN A GREEN FO AND A HIGH MINIMUMS CAPT THAT WAS JUST TAKEN OFF HIS GREEN STATUS. THE FO WAS NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT ATC WAS ASKING ABOUT WAKE TURB AND THE CAPT WAS TAXIING THE ACFT TRYING TO COMMUNICATE TO ATC HIS INTENTIONS ABOUT THE WAKE TURB SEPARATION AS WELL AS TRYING TO COMMUNICATION TO THE FO WHAT WAS GOING ON. SITUATION ALLY, BOTH THE CRW AND ATC WERE OF THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE WAS NO TFC ON FINAL AND ANOTHER ACFT WAS CLRED TO TAXI ACROSS THE RWY DOWNFIELD OF OUR POS. NO OTHER ACFT WERE DELAYED OR INCONVENIENCED BY THIS ACTION THAT WE ARE AWARE OF, AND WE MAY HAVE RECEIVED 'POS AND HOLD,' BUT DURING ALL THE OTHER COMS THAT WERE TAKING PLACE AT THAT TIME, WE JUST DO NOT REMEMBER RECEIVING THAT EXACT WORDING, 'POS AND HOLD.' THE ONLY SUGGESTION I COULD OFFER IS THAT A HIGH MINIMUMS CAPT HAS TO HAVE 100 HRS PIC AND GREEN STATUS IS 75 HRS IN THE ACFT. MAYBE 'GREEN' SHOULD BE EXTENDED TO THE CAPT IS OFF HIGH MINIMUMS, TO GIVE HIM/HER THAT MUCH MORE EXPERIENCE WITH AN EXPERIENCED FO TO HELP REDUCE THE WORKLOAD OF CREW DURING THESE CRITICAL TIMES OF ACFT MOVEMENT.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Air carrier flight crew taxi into takeoff position and hold, then question if clearance was to hold short. No adverse comment made by ATC. Captain questions company policy for 'green' to full captain.