37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 511508 |
Time | |
Date | 200105 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : mdsd.airport |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl single value : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : mdsd.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | DC-8 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 511508 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended or assigned course flight crew : became reoriented |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance Airspace Structure Aircraft |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Controller gave us descent instructions from FL330, said to maintain high speed. Initial descent was to 16000 ft then to 7000 ft. We were aware from previous flts that getting down in time could be a problem and that controller/pilot communication is also, at best, weak. As we approached the field, we began to slow at 10000 ft and configure to get down. We had held high airspeed previously as instructed by the approach controller. As it was obvious we would need to be vectored we were given heading 090 degrees for a while then 210 degrees to intercept localizer. Altitudes to descend to were to 3000 ft then finally 2000 ft. All communications were difficult to understand. As we were cleared to 210 degrees and to intercept the localizer, we were already past it and about 8-9 mi north of the prohibited area. We broke out of the clouds and saw the military runway about 8-9 mi ahead. We corrected to the left and intercepted the localizer to an uneventful landing. While on the 210 degree radial, the controller wanted to question us as to why we didn't maintain a 'high descent' as instructed. This was distracting as we were trying to understand him, turn to intercept, configure, run the checklist, and avoid the prohibited area all while breaking out of the clouds. He should have told us to 'maintain a high descent rate' instead of 'high speed descent.' the DC8 doesn't descend as well as other more modern aircraft. The controller is probably used to B757's, etc. It would have been very easy to key onto the military runway visually and intrude into prohibited airspace or even land at the wrong airport.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A DC8 CARGO PIC'S RPT ON IMPROPER HANDLING BY ATC DURING THEIR APCH INTO MSDQ, FO.
Narrative: CTLR GAVE US DSCNT INSTRUCTIONS FROM FL330, SAID TO MAINTAIN HIGH SPD. INITIAL DSCNT WAS TO 16000 FT THEN TO 7000 FT. WE WERE AWARE FROM PREVIOUS FLTS THAT GETTING DOWN IN TIME COULD BE A PROB AND THAT CTLR/PLT COM IS ALSO, AT BEST, WEAK. AS WE APCHED THE FIELD, WE BEGAN TO SLOW AT 10000 FT AND CONFIGURE TO GET DOWN. WE HAD HELD HIGH AIRSPD PREVIOUSLY AS INSTRUCTED BY THE APCH CTLR. AS IT WAS OBVIOUS WE WOULD NEED TO BE VECTORED WE WERE GIVEN HDG 090 DEGS FOR A WHILE THEN 210 DEGS TO INTERCEPT LOC. ALTS TO DSND TO WERE TO 3000 FT THEN FINALLY 2000 FT. ALL COMS WERE DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND. AS WE WERE CLRED TO 210 DEGS AND TO INTERCEPT THE LOC, WE WERE ALREADY PAST IT AND ABOUT 8-9 MI N OF THE PROHIBITED AREA. WE BROKE OUT OF THE CLOUDS AND SAW THE MIL RWY ABOUT 8-9 MI AHEAD. WE CORRECTED TO THE L AND INTERCEPTED THE LOC TO AN UNEVENTFUL LNDG. WHILE ON THE 210 DEG RADIAL, THE CTLR WANTED TO QUESTION US AS TO WHY WE DIDN'T MAINTAIN A 'HIGH DSCNT' AS INSTRUCTED. THIS WAS DISTRACTING AS WE WERE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HIM, TURN TO INTERCEPT, CONFIGURE, RUN THE CHKLIST, AND AVOID THE PROHIBITED AREA ALL WHILE BREAKING OUT OF THE CLOUDS. HE SHOULD HAVE TOLD US TO 'MAINTAIN A HIGH DSCNT RATE' INSTEAD OF 'HIGH SPD DSCNT.' THE DC8 DOESN'T DSND AS WELL AS OTHER MORE MODERN ACFT. THE CTLR IS PROBABLY USED TO B757'S, ETC. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY EASY TO KEY ONTO THE MIL RWY VISUALLY AND INTRUDE INTO PROHIBITED AIRSPACE OR EVEN LAND AT THE WRONG ARPT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.