Instructor and student pilots of C172 penetrate dc ADIZ on dual cross country.

Attributes
ACN	599852
Time
Date	200311
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	navaid : aml.vortac
State Reference	VA
Altitude	msl single value : 2900
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : pct.tracon
Operator	general aviation : instructional
Make Model Name	Skyhawk 172/Cutlass 172
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Navigation In Use	other vortac
Flight Plan	VFR
Person 1
Affiliation	other
Function	instruction : instructor
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : cfi
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 80 flight time total : 1003 flight time type : 400
ASRS Report	599852
Person 2
Affiliation	other
Function	instruction : trainee
Events
Anomaly	airspace violation : entry non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance controller : issued advisory flight crew : exited adverse environment
Consequence	faa : investigated faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Navigational Facility Flight Crew Human Performance FAA Airspace Structure Chart Or Publication Environmental Factor
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation
Situations
Airspace Structure	special use : dcadiz.othersua

Narrative:

We were on a night VFR flight from thv to jyo via EMI VOR. We had filed both on ADIZ and a VFR flight plan and had opened our VFR flight plan with williamsport FSS on departure from thv. After EMI VOR, we turned direct towards jyo and called potomac approach around 24-26 NM northeast of the aml VOR to get our ADIZ transponder code. My student was flying and operating the radios. I was monitoring the GPS to see our distance from aml to ensure we were not penetrating the ADIZ and I instructed my student to start his descent and ensure we remained below the shelf of the class B airspace (3000 ft MSL in that area). At first, there was no response from ATC and then we were given a transponder code and a vector to 270 degrees. We were then handed off to another controller who told us to contact them via telephone once we were on the ground. Upon doing so, I was told that we had penetrated the ADIZ by about 3-4 NM north of gaithersburg, md. I was shocked and the controller on the phone asked me why I had not called potomac up over EMI VOR. I explained that twice before I had tried that and they could not find my flight plan. According to other instructors I had talked to, EMI VOR is in the ny sector and sometimes there is a disconnect which causes the problem. I was confident I was clear of the ADIZ, but at night, it is difficult to see the usual visual references. Also, the terminal chart I was consulting indicates the 20 NM ring from aml as the limit of the ADIZ, but there is a segment that extends further to the east that is not marked with a distance from a NAVAID, so it is very difficult to determine where that is. It is possible that a death in the family, 2 days prior, may have been on my mind, but I was well rested and had eaten. We had filed all necessary flight plans and I have been flying in and around the ADIZ since its inception. I feel that I was doing everything properly, but was a bit off course, which is why ATC claims I had an incursion in the airspace. We were monitoring the frequency and I was very aware on the ADIZ and feel it is very difficult to determine its boundary. Especially at night in that area.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: INSTRUCTOR AND STUDENT PLTS OF C172 PENETRATE DC ADIZ ON DUAL XCOUNTRY.

Narrative: WE WERE ON A NIGHT VFR FLT FROM THV TO JYO VIA EMI VOR. WE HAD FILED BOTH ON ADIZ AND A VFR FLT PLAN AND HAD OPENED OUR VFR FLT PLAN WITH WILLIAMSPORT FSS ON DEP FROM THV. AFTER EMI VOR, WE TURNED DIRECT TOWARDS JYO AND CALLED POTOMAC APCH AROUND 24-26 NM NE OF THE AML VOR TO GET OUR ADIZ XPONDER CODE. MY STUDENT WAS FLYING AND OPERATING THE RADIOS. I WAS MONITORING THE GPS TO SEE OUR DISTANCE FROM AML TO ENSURE WE WERE NOT PENETRATING THE ADIZ AND I INSTRUCTED MY STUDENT TO START HIS DSCNT AND ENSURE WE REMAINED BELOW THE SHELF OF THE CLASS B AIRSPACE (3000 FT MSL IN THAT AREA). AT FIRST, THERE WAS NO RESPONSE FROM ATC AND THEN WE WERE GIVEN A XPONDER CODE AND A VECTOR TO 270 DEGS. WE WERE THEN HANDED OFF TO ANOTHER CTLR WHO TOLD US TO CONTACT THEM VIA TELEPHONE ONCE WE WERE ON THE GND. UPON DOING SO, I WAS TOLD THAT WE HAD PENETRATED THE ADIZ BY ABOUT 3-4 NM N OF GAITHERSBURG, MD. I WAS SHOCKED AND THE CTLR ON THE PHONE ASKED ME WHY I HAD NOT CALLED POTOMAC UP OVER EMI VOR. I EXPLAINED THAT TWICE BEFORE I HAD TRIED THAT AND THEY COULD NOT FIND MY FLT PLAN. ACCORDING TO OTHER INSTRUCTORS I HAD TALKED TO, EMI VOR IS IN THE NY SECTOR AND SOMETIMES THERE IS A DISCONNECT WHICH CAUSES THE PROB. I WAS CONFIDENT I WAS CLR OF THE ADIZ, BUT AT NIGHT, IT IS DIFFICULT TO SEE THE USUAL VISUAL REFS. ALSO, THE TERMINAL CHART I WAS CONSULTING INDICATES THE 20 NM RING FROM AML AS THE LIMIT OF THE ADIZ, BUT THERE IS A SEGMENT THAT EXTENDS FURTHER TO THE E THAT IS NOT MARKED WITH A DISTANCE FROM A NAVAID, SO IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE WHERE THAT IS. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT A DEATH IN THE FAMILY, 2 DAYS PRIOR, MAY HAVE BEEN ON MY MIND, BUT I WAS WELL RESTED AND HAD EATEN. WE HAD FILED ALL NECESSARY FLT PLANS AND I HAVE BEEN FLYING IN AND AROUND THE ADIZ SINCE ITS INCEPTION. I FEEL THAT I WAS DOING EVERYTHING PROPERLY, BUT WAS A BIT OFF COURSE, WHICH IS WHY ATC CLAIMS I HAD AN INCURSION IN THE AIRSPACE. WE WERE MONITORING THE FREQ AND I WAS VERY AWARE ON THE ADIZ AND FEEL IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE ITS BOUNDARY. ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT IN THAT AREA.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.